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AHA - Ask Herbivore Anything

I actually recommend this with all oils made for cooking purposes. Ethyl alcohol is a known carcinogen - just because people drink it doesn't mean it is safe. I always say don't consume it if you don't need to, especially if you are using cannabis as medicine. Of course, you can decide for yourself what you will put into your body (I just always make sure to remind medical people that ethanol is bad for your health), you still got nothing but respect coming from my direction bro :)

Remember that in the presence of a source of ignition, too much residual alcohol of any kind can be a fire risk and might burn your food too. These solvents have very low flash points.

As to your screen ideas for the fast flow part, 25 micron SS mesh or even just a fine household SS sieve (which tbh is not much different necessarily lol) will do the job before you fine filter through a coffee/whatman filter. :)

I look forward to hearing of your results man! You will find that dosing takes a while to dial in, I have made some out of this world strong edibles in this fashion before :rofl:
Thanks as always. I'm so grateful that I not only get great info and advise on this forum, but I get to get it from a buddy! :thumbsup::nod:
 
Thanks as always. I'm so grateful that I not only get great info and advise on this forum, but I get to get it from a buddy! :thumbsup::nod:
This is one of the things that makes this place so great man. A tight knit community with knowledgeable friends who can help one another take their medication to the next level of quality, convenience and safety. Round-the-clock DDOS's be damned - this place is wonderful.
 
Next set of questions!!

What is THC Distillate?
How is it made?
How can it be tasteless and odorless?
How can it be 96%?
What are the benefits to using distillate?
I see some people eat it, some vape it and some rub it on burns etc...

Can you fill in the blanks in this seemingly new product?
 
Next set of questions!!

What is THC Distillate?
How is it made?
How can it be tasteless and odorless?
How can it be 96%?
What are the benefits to using distillate?
I see some people eat it, some vape it and some rub it on burns etc...

Can you fill in the blanks in this seemingly new product?
Distillation is actually a very old technology. It is alleged to go back as far as the 12th century, if not further!

Distillation is the process of boiling a compound and then recondensing the vapor phase into a liquid for collection.

Reclaim in a dab rig is a great example of very crude distillation. You put the dab on your nail, it boils into vapor, you suck the vapor through your rig but some of it gets too cool and recondenses on the glass. That condensed liquid oil could be called a distillate. This is obviously not as high quality of a distillate as some of the products out there.

Distillation can also be used to isolate and separate compounds, using a technique called 'fractional distillation'. This is where your 96% THC distillates can come from. Often performed under a vacuum, fractional distillation does what some vaporists mistakenly think their vapes can do. You know how so many new vaporists think that they can separately boil off different compounds by using higher or lower temps in their vape to achieve the relevant boiling points?

Fractional distillation does exactly this, in an obviously much more tightly controlled environment with more accurate temp control and measurement than any vape. Fractional distillation is a wonderful way to purge solvents for recovery in original form too (with enough work, sometimes one must process a fraction several times to clean it of any other compounds with similar boiling points - the same goes for isolates etc, it is all down to technique of the processor).

Distillates can be solventless or solvent based, as distillation can be used to express plant essences from flower (however, this is not very efficient and typically most do an initial extraction using other methods first (solvent extracts usually, but this could be done with rosin or hash too).

The quality of the distillate is going to come down to a few things - the control over temp/pressure in the distillation rig used, the temps used in the pot (where the original substance goes to be boiled into vapor) and the cleanliness of the overall system, among other things. This is not a process that just anybody should use, as there can be some associated risks.

High (almost all) THC distillate is useful for public use as it can be made to have very low smell. Take a really terpy full melt dab before I leave the house and if I need to dose while away, some THC will boost the effects without the smell attracting every bystander for miles asking for a hit :rofl: THC itself is basically tasteless and odorless. THCA crystals are also tasteless and odorless IME.

Distillation has a number of valuable properties for our purposes as we can see :)

FYI, generally distillation should not be done at home. One should have at minimum some organic chem experience and read/been taught out of relevant lab manuals. Maintenance and proper operation of various fractional distillation rigs is very important for hygeine and safety (to prevent implosion/explosion risk with hot glass depending on how this process is being used). This is a great process for dispensaries/extract artists but this is not so much a tool for the home extractors arsenal - which is why you don't see a distillation thread in the Extraction Labs section here.

I hope that this has been educational for you guys, please do fire away with any more questions - I love seeing new questions here, bring on the inquiring minds! :aaaaa:
 
@herbivore21 - please correct me if I am wrong, but fractional distillation is also the process used in oil refineries to separate out different grades of product. Yeah?
 
@herbivore21 - please correct me if I am wrong, but fractional distillation is also the process used in oil refineries to separate out different grades of product. Yeah?
Yes! You are right my friend. Fractional distillation is the process by which home distillers of alcohol separate methanol from ethanol too! There are many applications for the various forms of distillation beyond cannabis, and these are mostly the applications that we observe throughout history.
 
I've been enjoying the ever lasting bowls kief and the VC give, almost joint like. Run a heat cycle and put it down for later. The Ti gives up enough heat not to over bake the load.

This led me to thinking...

I fondly remember the taste and flavors of the BHO I made decades ago and wondered would it be possible to soak some substrate with concentrate and do lots of single 'clicks' cycles throughout the day?

What would you consider the best materials to use and how many cycles do you think it would take to degrade the flavor and smell.
 
I've been enjoying the ever lasting bowls kief and the VC give, almost joint like. Run a heat cycle and put it down for later. The Ti gives up enough heat not to over bake the load.

This led me to thinking...

I fondly remember the taste and flavors of the BHO I made decades ago and wondered would it be possible to soak some substrate with concentrate and do lots of single 'clicks' cycles throughout the day?

What would you consider the best materials to use and how many cycles do you think it would take to degrade the flavor and smell.
I would think something like this perhaps milled down to size??

https://aqualabtechnologies.com/health-stone-glass-replacement-vapor-stone.html

_health_stone_2_3.jpg
 
would it be possible to soak some substrate with concentrate and do lots of single 'clicks' cycles throughout the day?

I'm looking forward to @herbivore21 s take on this.

I've had some good luck with the Vapcap, concentrates and a modified S&B Concentrate Pad. I crimped the edges with flat pliers to change the shape of the pads from a disk to a cylinder. Then I cut it in half and stuffed it into the VC chamber. Perfect fit. It fills the chamber and I plop a little blob of shatter or wax or whatever on there and off I go…
 
I've been enjoying the ever lasting bowls kief and the VC give, almost joint like. Run a heat cycle and put it down for later. The Ti gives up enough heat not to over bake the load.

This led me to thinking...

I fondly remember the taste and flavors of the BHO I made decades ago and wondered would it be possible to soak some substrate with concentrate and do lots of single 'clicks' cycles throughout the day?

What would you consider the best materials to use and how many cycles do you think it would take to degrade the flavor and smell.
I had the idea to use a substrate (stainless steel wire pressed into a concentrate pad that fits the omnivap) a long time ago for concentrates. A few things that I have learned:

* Don't use cotton. We need to heat the vapcap/omnivap etc well past the click for ideal concentrate usage. This could certainly burn your cotton.

* As above, heat well past the click when using concentrates in a vapcap product (4-5 seconds past the click is a good guide). If you only heat up to the click, you will get negligible vapor and with larger loads of oil, you can get INSANE amount of reclaim oil gunking up the condensor of your vapcap.

* IMO do not mix flower and concentrate in the vapcap, as if you respect the clicks to avoid combustion, I find that the vapcap doesn't always get enough heat through to fully vaporize the oil you've put in there. Instead you get sticky, gunky avb.

* All stainless coils MUST be pressed with high pressure (A vise with suitable flat plates does the job quite well) to avoid loose pieces. If there is any loose wire sticking out or hanging off your concentrate pad, go back to the drawing board and repress it into one single piece. Ideally, such a concentrate pad should be wound and pressed out of a single thread of stainless steel wire of a suitable thickness. Don't use anything that can come apart and that loose pieces could come into your airways as a result of. This is relevant to Baron23's question below:


I would think something like this perhaps milled down to size??

https://aqualabtechnologies.com/health-stone-glass-replacement-vapor-stone.html

_health_stone_2_3.jpg
This could be wonderful if it fits (I know people love how clean tasting these screens are), however I would be mindful of filing/milling anything like this until the material is known and the relevant variables can be accounted for. The health stone screens here are designed to sit in an 18 or 14mm GonG joint from memory (hence the taper). Both of these kinds of gong joints are considerably wider in diameter than the vapcap chamber and so this product would require work to resize as above.

I'm looking forward to @herbivore21 s take on this.

I've had some good luck with the Vapcap, concentrates and a modified S&B Concentrate Pad. I crimped the edges with flat pliers to change the shape of the pads from a disk to a cylinder. Then I cut it in half and stuffed it into the VC chamber. Perfect fit. It fills the chamber and I plop a little blob of shatter or wax or whatever on there and off I go…
This is the exact approach that I suggested long ago in the original vapcap thread in some other forum somewhere ;) Do not forget to press the concentrate pads at high pressure to avoid any loose bits coming out into the vapor path (OUCH!). This approach is the best so far for the vapcap range :)
 
Yes! It was from your advice that I tried this in the first place. I couldn't remember exactly…thanks for this. It works very well!
Glad you got to benefit from this one, my friend! I've had a wonderful time enjoying my vapcap with concentrates in the same way :biggrin:
 
Thanks folks, I knew you'd be the man to ask about the sticky shit and the VC @herbivore21.

What about flavor?
Will I be able to load the substrate and vape all day or would it only take a couple of hits for the taste to degrade?

No point in over filling it and the taste disappearing straight away.

I have some SS fine mesh so I may try a little something, something later.
 
Thanks folks, I knew you'd be the man to ask about the sticky shit and the VC @herbivore21.

What about flavor?
Will I be able to load the substrate and vape all day or would it only take a couple of hits for the taste to degrade?

No point in over filling it and the taste disappearing straight away.

I have some SS fine mesh so I may try a little something, something later.
Flavor really depends on whether you overdo any heat cycles. Flavor can stay very consistent over time with a large load of extract if you get the heat cycle timing just right.

When you try at first, I recommend starting small til you are more confident with timing concentrate hits. AVOID LOW TEMP HEAT CYCLES. If you only heat to the click with concentrates, you can melt that load through your wick/concentrate pad and especially if you try to inhale, are likely to gunk up the whole condenser and then have to reclaim your load.

3-4 seconds past the click is the golden rule (when using the 3 torch jet lighter that @Dynavap sells, other lighter may have longer or shorter ideal heat cycle times) IME.
 
Great thread, you're the man @herbivore21!

A couple of questions here:
What causes the browning of our herbs as they vape at higher temps?
Are there any byproducts of the browning that impact either effects or health?
Good questions and thanks for the kind words sir!

The browning of herb as it vapes (especially higher temp and later in the bowl) is going to owe to a variety of thermal-oxidative decomposition and other volatilization processes. Resin browns initially as it melts and before it boils off your nug. This is a relatively fast process however. Then there's the rest of the plant material. As you get further into a bowl (the higher the temp, the quicker as you observe), then your inactive plant material is being cooked. Green plant material goes brown when heated sufficiently, and eventually black if it gets hot enough to burn. Of course, most objects darken and eventually blacken when heated at high temps in the same way for the same reasons. ;)

One of the big reasons that I avoid vaping flower so often in favor of dabbing is because IME, these inactive components in some cases are producing vapor as well, vapor that causes a lot of throat/respiratory irritation for me vs just the resin. This is one solution to avoiding any health concerns relating to degradation and inhalation of inactive plant matter in a vape. Of course, none of these concerns are remotely as much of a problem as smoking, and many tolerate vaping flower nonetheless. This is an option for those that might experience what I did :weed:
 
Good questions and thanks for the kind words sir!

The browning of herb as it vapes (especially higher temp and later in the bowl) is going to owe to a variety of thermal-oxidative decomposition and other volatilization processes. Resin browns initially as it melts and before it boils off your nug. This is a relatively fast process however. Then there's the rest of the plant material. As you get further into a bowl (the higher the temp, the quicker as you observe), then your inactive plant material is being cooked. Green plant material goes brown when heated sufficiently, and eventually black if it gets hot enough to burn. Of course, most objects darken and eventually blacken when heated at high temps in the same way for the same reasons. ;)

One of the big reasons that I avoid vaping flower so often in favor of dabbing is because IME, these inactive components in some cases are producing vapor as well, vapor that causes a lot of throat/respiratory irritation for me vs just the resin. This is one solution to avoiding any health concerns relating to degradation and inhalation of inactive plant matter in a vape. Of course, none of these concerns are remotely as much of a problem as smoking, and many tolerate vaping flower nonetheless. This is an option for those that might experience what I did :weed:
Thank you very much for the thorough response. I wish I had the techniques/quantity of flowers to be able to make the concentrates that you use. :biggrin: I've never had a concentrate that helps my GI tract the way flower does. There has always seemed like something has been lost in translation, and that "something" is what helps me the most it seems. Thankfully vaping doesn't cause me irritation. I do tend to keep below temps that really change the colour of the herb. Using my vape the way I do, I am able to get thorough extraction (of what I need, at least) without browning the herb. The only sessions that I get brown abv are at the end of the day with my grasshopper and VC that help with sleep.

Thanks again, I look forward to picking your brain again in the future. :biggrin: Scientific understanding seems to be something that is thoroughly lacking when it comes to vaping as well as cannabis in general. Hopefully you can help change that!
 
Thank you very much for the thorough response. I wish I had the techniques/quantity of flowers to be able to make the concentrates that you use. :biggrin: I've never had a concentrate that helps my GI tract the way flower does. There has always seemed like something has been lost in translation, and that "something" is what helps me the most it seems. Thankfully vaping doesn't cause me irritation. I do tend to keep below temps that really change the colour of the herb. Using my vape the way I do, I am able to get thorough extraction (of what I need, at least) without browning the herb. The only sessions that I get brown abv are at the end of the day with my grasshopper and VC that help with sleep.

I have often said that I understand completely when people say that the concentrates that they've had are 'missing something' compared to the flower they came from in the case of traditional solvent extracts and hell, even a lot of rosin. The fact is that a lot of processing methods do drastically change the profile of actives in the final product when we extract in those ways.

This is why I have long preferred whole resin gland extractions (full melt that has not been microplaned etc). The outer membrane of cannabis trichome glands protects the resin within from oxidation and decomposition. You retain a more whole representation of the entire chemical profile in the resin, whilst still removing all of the inactive plant material from the mix. Full melt is the ultimate cannabis experience IMO for these reasons and more.

I would probably vape flower more often if I did not have full melt, just to supplement in some of the flavor/effects that don't come out in my rosin and other extracts from the flower. That may help to illustrate what I'm saying :biggrin:

BTW, try dialling the temp down on your hopper, I find that the hopper was one of the best vapes for getting huge rips of vapor without browning much, instead the AVB ends up more yellow :twocents:

Thanks again, I look forward to picking your brain again in the future. :biggrin: Scientific understanding seems to be something that is thoroughly lacking when it comes to vaping as well as cannabis in general. Hopefully you can help change that!
Glad to have helped and thanks for your support and for stopping by! Please do return with any other questions that you may have about the :science: :peace:
 
I have often said that I understand completely when people say that the concentrates that they've had are 'missing something' compared to the flower they came from in the case of traditional solvent extracts and hell, even a lot of rosin. The fact is that a lot of processing methods do drastically change the profile of actives in the final product when we extract in those ways.

This is why I have long preferred whole resin gland extractions (full melt that has not been microplaned etc). The outer membrane of cannabis trichome glands protects the resin within from oxidation and decomposition. You retain a more whole representation of the entire chemical profile in the resin, whilst still removing all of the inactive plant material from the mix. Full melt is the ultimate cannabis experience IMO for these reasons and more.

I would probably vape flower more often if I did not have full melt, just to supplement in some of the flavor/effects that don't come out in my rosin and other extracts from the flower. That may help to illustrate what I'm saying :biggrin:
And this why (most of) the rest of us can do nothing but drool when we see pics of your extracts! :biggrin: If I had the quality of extracts that you have I am sure I would vape flower less and dab more.

BTW, try dialling the temp down on your hopper, I find that the hopper was one of the best vapes for getting huge rips of vapor without browning much, instead the AVB ends up more yellow :twocents:
When using the hopper during the day I have been sticking to 3.5. When using at night I had been using it at 5. Based on your recommendation, I have dialled it down to 4 for night time and I am happy to say it has been a success. Less coughing, possibly more clear effects(might be placebo), and no negative impact on sleep (which was my biggest concern). It is helpful that I have a couple of very good "sleepy time" phenos in my possession. Thanks for the tip, very helpful! :cheers:

Glad to have helped and thanks for your support and for stopping by! Please do return with any other questions that you may have about the :science: :peace:
Oh, you can rest assured that I'll be back. :nod: I love learning the science behind cannabis and vaping. Wrong information is far too common on the internet and with cannabis. Thanks for doing your part to counter that!
 

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