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AHA - Ask Herbivore Anything

Discussion in 'Lock Down' started by herbivore21, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    @ataxian - thank your lucky stars that most people are MUCH more nice than I. I just like you a lot :biggrin::rofl:

    It does look very similar in build quality. Now...I don't know that much about carts but my WA state local buddy who suggested the Nectar cart indicated that they did NOT have a cotton wick which apparently often contribute a bit of a burnt taste?? But I have no idea what the wick in that cart is in actuality...I thought perhaps they were using porous ceramic???
     
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  2. ataxian

    ataxian Well-Known Member

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    @baron I love you in a brotherly way as well!
    @grokit I replace my cotton wicks each week to obtain the better flavor.
    The COILS I just clean and replace monthly.
    This for CANNABIS use. (never could get into tobacco)?

    I want to get a FLOWER POT next? (with a SIC nail)
    I bought more glass today for pleasure not need so next week?
     
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  3. grokit

    grokit Well-Known Member

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    All I know is that when I was at another (more familiar) dispensary I mentioned the pen I purchased to them, and they showed me their version (kind of) as they were out of it. That's the one I want to try as it's from my favorite lab so far. We got into a conversation about what cartridge works with what battery, and she showed me that while their carts might screw into other batteries, not to mix and match because (for example) when their cart was used with the battery I bought, the wick part gets pushed in too far rendering the cartridge inoperable. The wick she showed me was fiber, for a different but similar system. I think that what she showed me was an empty cart, which means yes they're rebuildable.

    edit: when I figure out what this other pen system is I will report back, because it's oos I can't find it atm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
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  4. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Yup, full melt is just whole trichome glands. The way that I process, the glands are never breached, they stay whole. In this way, the resin inside is preserved that also keeps very well in storage. This is as true a representation of the original resin from the capitate stalked and sessile trichomes as one can find. These trichomes are not all of the resin glands found on the plant, but are the vast majority of glands found on the flowers itself. The inferior flavor of oil extractions (especially from trim!) to full melt is in part because full melt is only made from the tastier types of glands mentioned above and the relatively small, considerably worse tasting 'bulbous trichomes' are left behind on the leaves.

    Full melt can be processed in ways that gives it more of a body effect. If you press it with the right amount of heat, you can retain the headiness, barely alter the flavor and also add more body effect. Full melt, even when not pressed like this will still be wonderful for sleep/body effects if you have the right terp profile for these purposes, this is because full melt preserves those terps incredibly well!

    As my friend @Baron23 says, these disposable carts are frequently made of terrible materials. It may be that something in the cart itself (not the oil) is giving you the nasty taste you speak of. There could also be nasty polymerized and overcooked resin stuck on the wick in your cart. The disposables are not something I fuck with for a number of reasons, this is one of them.

    Yup red hot will ensure that you have awful taste as you say lol

    It is definitely a matter of the pens, I've had some dreadful experiences with some of these kinds of pens recently myself. I tried Sourcevapes' quartz dual coils for the first time recently at low temp and it tasted like fucking poison. The oil I was using is out of this world stuff that I've shared photos of here before, suffice to say it tastes wonderful on my enail! I find that at least 6/10 oil pen carts that I have used taste hideous like this! I really hate most pens out there.

    Please do keep at it brother. As you'll note from my comments above, I've kept looking at all of the new pens on offer recently. Still have not found 'the one' yet. No pen that I've used meets my needs yet and the experience is so inferior to my e-nails that I feel like I'm wasting my medicine!

    In another world where I didn't need MMJ for medical reasons, I would actually probably consume MJ infused products (food though if it were just for taste) for the flavor alone. I love the taste of cannabis. However, IRL that is a happy coincidence. As with yourself, I am in it for the medically useful effects that I get. The flavor is just gravy ;)

    I don't like any of the Source 4 carts except for the titanium and quartz buckets (which are good, and work with full melt unlike any other pen!!!!!). I haven't used the terra 2 though, which does look great. The original terra was fucking terrible, known issues which is why we have the terra 2 now :peace:

    I cannot fathom why people use quartz coil based atomizers, my experience with this at the lowest possible temp was absolutely awful. Tasted like too-hot quartz nail dabs and oil spattered about everywhere despite my gentle draw. I am not at all a fan of Source's coil based offerings. The quartz plus atomizer also functions incredibly shittily and seemed to just make a bunch of my errl disappear without giving flavor (except for a slight overcooked burned electronic flavor), nor clouds, nor effect.

    Brother if it helps you feel better, you keep on joking - we enjoy your posts here always :peace: I'm hoping that you have as many colas and concentrates as you could possibly want, my friend! Couldn't agree with you more either: There's nothing better than colas and concentrates!

    It sounds like you use higher quality tanks and maintain them appropriately. This is definitely the best case scenario for using ecig style tanks for cannabis :biggrin:

    That would be such a wonderful combination for you man! You might even end up liking the flower pot more than your evo? I know I found that I preferred that kind of vape to my own evo, even if the evo is a wonderful vape (one of the best!) :) The SiC halo with electric heat would be heavenly for your concentrate needs, and I'm sure your wife will appreciate that you don't need a torch :biggrin:

    I hope you get your hands on these really soon man! Both are very reliable ways for medical users to be able to dose as much as they need very quickly :weed:

    Oh you guys! Glad to see some of my favorite people around these parts getting along so well :aaaaa:

    Oh what new glass did you get my friend? :biggrin:

    Please do let us all know of your thoughts when you've got your hands on the Sic Halo and flowerpot! If you need any assistance setting them up or using them when they arrive, please do message me man. I'll make time wherever possible to assist a stand up guy like yourself! :peace:

    Ecig carts require a staggering amount of know-how don't they bro!? It is as complicated as cannabis vaporizers and then some :dog:
     
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  5. Kellya86

    Kellya86 Herb Gardener.....

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    More propaganda to make me buy this..
    Im seeing it everywhere....
    @herbivore21 should I buy it......????
    @ataxian I didn't realise you have one on the way...
    Let me know how it goes....
     
  6. ataxian

    ataxian Well-Known Member

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    @herbivore21 I mess with.
    I do want a SIC NAIL because of him.
    The FLOWER POT I want to try because there's no glass.

    If it is stronger it will be a good fit.
    My EVO is my driver for COLAS. (when I have it?)
    I use a MOD for CONCENTRATES (for now)
    I ordered more glass yesterday so next week I'll get the FLOWER POT.
    Curious to use it? (Don't need it, however want one!)
     
  7. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    IIRC, the flower pot is very similar to the d-nail flower adapter, IME, that was wonderful! From the videos, the flower pot looks quite serviceable too and should be great :biggrin:

    As you are more frequently dabbing, you certainly should get a SiC halo for yourself. Everybody who uses concentrates should get one, being that it is the most tasty, durable, torch and e-nail compatible nail on the market :biggrin:

    This is a very good point, the flower pot would be great for not having any glass to break apart from your rig!
     
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  8. ataxian

    ataxian Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I'm such a CUNT!
    Forgive me?
    Really my intention is to MEDICATE not DEstroy?

    I will get a SIC NAIL one day! (before death) maybe?

    I only have a gram left?


    I claim to be CIVILIZED?

    The truth is maybe in 1,000 year's?
     
  9. Cuckfumbustion

    Cuckfumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

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    Waste not want not. I say. :biggrin: Not sure if this is worthy of an extraction labs thread. I don't know of an 'ordinary' ISO hash method. Plus other questions that might lead into the science and chemical reaction discussion of things. I hope. :science:

    ISO and ABV questions. Certain chemicals and compounds break down in sunlight or left to the open air, etc Alcohol Solubility ? Tincture with ISO alcohol and ABV? Cell wall structures? :thinker: Essential oils?

    Does the ISO break down the oils further if ISO wash has been sitting in a jar for long periods of time. Is it essentially dirty ISO or what is left behind after the ISO evaporates?

    Would 60 secs of shaking and filtering be sufficient to extract the 'essense' of the materials? Then straight to the low heat method. Like say evaporation in a pyrex square dish and a heating tray? (most surface area being heated at once.)

    So other than the normal hazards of heating 99% ISO or scorching an unattended pyrex dish. What other safety hazards are their to ponder. I am under the impression that 1% is water and a trace of impurities? Any comments on that?

    CBD and essence questions. Is there more CBD content in correctly extracted ABV by ANY method? If you are extracting the mass of a plant how much of the structure (cell wall mass) can be left behind.
     
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  10. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Greetings! I do apologize for the delay. I've been very busy lately and have had to pick and choose which responses to type when I get a moment to come back here!

    If you have filtered the iso wash and left the resulting filtered tincture (no ABV left in the iso anymore of course!), this solution should store long term with little changing so long as it is kept in an airtight container in a cool, dry place.

    60 seconds is too long. Remember, your ABV is ground already. Anyone who has made good solvent concentrates will tell you that even fresh nugs when ground will only allow for wash times of 10-20 seconds.

    With ABV, I view 20 seconds as a HARD MAXIMUM wash time. If you think there's more, try another wash with new iso, but DO NOT expose your ABV to iso for longer than 20 seconds in one shot and make sure to dry it properly between washes. You should not find justification for a second iso wash from ABV in any case however. Do not bother shaking/agitating much, if the ABV is ground, the goods will come out with little encouragement, much more easily than if you were washing fresh whole nugs. Consider freezing both your iso and ABV and washing while very cold to increase the quality of your results.

    The composition of your ISO will vary depending on what you've bought. I cannot provide localized information about ISO suppliers unfortunately, so Caveat Emptor is the order of the day. Well refined ISO should only contain water other than the alcohol itself. There may be trace impurities in some cases though. Contact the manufacturer of your ISO and ask how it was manufactured, what testing they do for impurities etc.

    A major factor with iso is that when we boil iso on a double boiler, the alcohol vapor can frequently rise out of the dish and then fall to the surfaces around the outside of the dish. If you are using a stove with a hot element/flame exposed, this could be a profound fire risk.

    I recommend induction cooktops only (these have better temp control than any stove! Also there's no hot element/ignition source and these can be found very cheaply) for purging of alcohol solvents and preferably this should be done outdoors, or in a space that is well ventilated, with only fire/explosion proof fans.

    Hopefully this helps my friend!
     
  11. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    Ask @herbivore21 anything. I like that. It almost seems like a challenge somehow... How about we ask two things?

    1. 10 ton hydraulic press and 3*5 plates inbound. What's a reasonable amount to press on that size plate? Given the pressure one would anticipate lower temps, higher pressures and longer times, correct? Or are there other things to add to the mix?

    2. Given that an aqueous film forming foam (afff) acts as both a surfactant and wetting agent in mainstream fire fighting what might be a suggested low foam alternative that could be added to a 650 litre tank of water? I'm leaning towards dishwasher detergent, at approx 2% solution, but only because of the voices in my head. Any thoughts?

    The voices have steered me right in the past, but I want to validate them with voices from the interweb. Plus you did say anything, and I want you to know its appreciated :)
     
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  12. grokit

    grokit Well-Known Member

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    From my limited experience diluting surfactants for spraying foliage, you could get away with much less than 2%.

    :twocents:
     
  13. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Sorry for the delay in responding my friend, I assure you it is in no way personal, there are not many folks that I have more time for than yourself :biggrin: My scientific research project that I'm working on atm is hitting crunch time, and I'm very very busy atm. I hope this finds you very well!

    1. At 10 ton, you should be good to press a quarter to half ounce at a time without any real trouble. In some cases, you may even be able to get 3/4 to a whole zip! YMMV depending on the quality of what you are pressing. I would suggest starting with a quarter ounce press and then work your way up a couple grams at a time and measure your yields each time.

    See what you get in yield from a single press using 75% of the maximum force from the ram, since it is not a good idea to run your hydraulic press at full force if you wanna get a good lifespan and minimize any chances of hardware failure (you'd know this shit I'm sure bro, and frankly, you are likely to be more qualified to know this stuff than I am given your background lol - credit where it is due!). When you start to see a diminishing yield (measured as a % of the starting flower) per press, that is where you should draw the line and not press any more flower at a time.

    For me, I prefer to squish a much smaller amount which allows me to get the lion's share of the resin out of the flower in a single press. I typically get 15% from one squish when I do this, and subsequent squishes yield so little (<1%) that it is not even worth bothering with anymore pressing.

    2. Now that may be the first question that has me stumped in this thread! :dog: As a scientist, it is always best to admit when a question is well outside of your reading and expertise *raises white flag*. You know what? I seem to remember making the acquaintance of somebody who would be very qualified over at that other forum we know of. I wonder if they're still around and if I might quiz them, I'm sure they'd be glad to oblige if they're still there!

    If I may ask without unreasonably prying, what is the context my friend? You looking to do some emergency fire preparation in a processing space or something?
     
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  14. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    @herbivore21 thanks so much! None of my Qs has a time constraint. I'm more interested in the response, because yours are always well thought out and insightful. Crunch time... i wish you well, knowing full well that you don't really need them ;)

    A 3 piece, magnetic metal prepress arrived! FV suggests starting with 10g. Heat plates together to 130, then do a long press, slowly increasing pressure. The press has yet to arrive, but plates and prepress arrived last night, and I'm kinda chomping at the bit...

    Second answer - We live rural, surrounded by forest, and there have been around 40k people evacuated from their homes due to fire so far this summer. We didn't have a spring season, instead opting for record flooding as heavy rain brought snowpack down early. This made vegetation grow wild, and then suddenly become kindling dry. Its eerie walking through a hot, dry forest...
    The short answer is that i have a wierd background, not completely at odds than the fellow you mention. People that do this professionally tend to want the best
    stuff - its dangerous job and the right kit helps them succeed. On ships we use AFFF at 3% solution due to the nature of what is likely burning. For bushfire use that stuff is expensive. 'Professionals' tend to say 'use the expensive stuff'. Its nice to have a budget. Before AFFF it was septic-friendly, low sudsing dishsoap.

    For surfactant, as Mr @grokit says, less than 2% is fine, as well. With a 650 litre tank of water there is 1/3-ish litre of orange-scented, antibac, phosphate-free dishsoap ready to dump in the water tank.

    Here's a long vid. You can see foam sticking to everything it touches, isolating oxygen from combustibles. Skip ahead to around 430 to see an atv firetruck...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  15. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    So here's a question that just popped into my head... A recent video shows a guy doing an oz press, and getting 6.5g return. Not too shabby, but maybe a little aggressive? What would be a reasonable amount to press on 3x5 plates? Is 15 too much? I have an aluminum pre-press which should work dandy, plus the plate supplier provided a swack of bags in different microns...
     
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  16. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    You could reasonably press even more than 15g on plates if the volume of the puck can fit between them. The question is how much pressure do you have to apply? That is a major factor in how much you can press at once efficiently :peace:
     
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  17. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    True enough, and I can't recall his setup now. So with the 3x5 plates I have, and up to 10 tons of pressure, my first measured squish was 11 grams, which provided 2.7g resin. That was at about 9 tons when we had a slight mishap - I'd placed a piece of 1/2" plywood under the lower plate to act as insulation between the heated plate and the cold press frame. At around 8.5t there was a bit of movement, and when I bumped pressure up a wee bit there was a flash of movement. This was later diagnosed as the plywood deforming on one side, which allowed the plate to shoot out under pressure. There is now a piece of automotive gasket material in between the two pieces to help with heat control, but I haven't gone about the 7k pressure mark for the last couple of presses, and the results are quite poor, compared to the 8500/9k number. This is also the number where the top bar on the press starts to deform. I'm considering a trip to a local machine shop for some creative welding enhancements to the machine. And maybe a 20 ton ram upgrade...

    Product is stored with 62% Boveda packs, while some is slightly dry and crunchy. none of the lower pressure yields are reasonable. The pucks are quite sticky, and the bags seem to hold a lot of oil as well. I went to far as to empty a bag of the puck and press the bag on it's own and got .5g out of it. I'm thinking bags are kinda nice, but also probably optional...

    So 11 grams, prepressed, gave a really decent return at around 9k/210f 4 minute press. Anything shorter duration or less pressure wasn't all that productive.

    This evening the pressure goes up, and we'll even try writing some numbers down and see what we get outta this thing.
     
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  18. Lissette

    Lissette New Member

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    @herbivore21

    I was hoping you can answer this. I took a picture of hash rosin under a compound microscope, zkittlez to be exact. It was better than the actual candy, sorry I just had to comment on that. :enamored::hungry:

    The picture in the center was magnified at 1000x, (immersion oil was added). However, I am having a hard time deciding on what I'm looking at. Are they actual cannabinoids and terpenes? I know full melt only consists of trichomes, so is it safe to say it's phytocannabinoids I'm truly looking at?:razz2::love:

    -Lissette
     

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  19. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Greetings, and thank you for the excellent question and the picture! On the scientific research that I've read currently (which I must stress, is likely not to be the most recent - http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/89/4/1351.short ), I can't say for certain myself.

    Here's a quote that gives us a problem for using a microscope to identify terpenoids (remember, cannabinoids are a type of terpenoid!):

    "Smooth endoplasmic reticulum has been frequently observed in cells assumed to produce terpene secretions (17, 19, 29). Yet, the lack of suitable methods for identifying terpenoids under the electron microscope has prevented any ultrastructural demonstration of the direct involvement of smooth endoplasmic reticulum in terpene biogenesis."

    What we see in the second sentence above is that at the time of writing (1989, hence why I say I'll need to read some more studies when I'm not working my day job) that there was not a suitable way to identify terpenoid substances by microscopy alone.

    What this means is that at present, I'd be lying to you if I said that I could identify the substances within the trichomes from a microscope image. I'll be sure to keep looking when I get a moment though, I'm quite interested to see if anybody ever uncovered a way to distinguish terpenoids by microscopy!
     
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  20. Lissette

    Lissette New Member

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    Thanks for the clear up @herbivore21, I will keep looking for answers myself. I appreciate the response!! I will come back if I do get a lead on something! I'm currently sending emails to plant biologist hoping for a response, figures crossed!!

    Best,
    Lissette
     
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