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Safety Ed's TNT Woodscents Vaporizer - SAFETY APPROVED

Discussion in 'Vapes and Related Equipment Safety' started by herbivore21, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    I'm glad to say that Ed's Woodscents Vaporizer has received a Vapor Asylum Safety Seal of Approval! This means that it has been inspected (in this very thread) and is deemed acceptable by VaporAsylum standards. The following posts now serve as a record of the inspection process:

    Whilst I have never received anything for free from Ed and generally do not buy wooden vape products, my experience with him as a customer in the past was wonderful.

    Long (probably years now!) ago, Ed, a fellow member of a certain online community told me about his plans to develop a log vaporizer. Life got in the way of this plan for a while and it would still be some time before he brought a vape to market. In the meantime, he has always been somebody that I've been happy to shoot the shit with about vaping.

    Fast forward to now and you guys can imagine how excited I am to journey through the paces with Ed as we look into the safety of his new vaporizer design.

    So without further ado, let's journey down the rabbit hole:

    @Ed's TnT Thanks so much for your eager participation too, we've not put many units through the paces and we do now have our VA Safety Approvals process in place (thanks as always to @momofthegoons !), so I will provide some information from the guidelines from which to derive some initial questions (which are a good starting point even if you do not seek a VA Safety Approval - which is voluntary):

    *ALL materials used in the device must be listed. Pictures or video of a teardown of the unit are required, clearly listing and identifying all components.
    *The air and vapor path of the vaporizer must be described in detail, with the location of the air intake clearly identified and all components and materials described.

    This raises the following questions:

    1. Can we please have a list of all components in your Woodscents Vaporizer, including all of the relevant materials used?

    2. Can you please provide teardown photos or video to indicate which components are which and provide a visual reference as to your design?

    3. Can you please describe where the air is taken into the unit, as well as specify all of the above components that sit in the air/vapor path?


    Please keep in mind that you may voluntarily seek a VA Safety Approval by meeting these criteria. Please do indicate if you wish to do so and we can carry on in this thread as such :biggrin:

    With answers to these questions, we can let the safety discussion begin!

    I thank @Ed's TnT once again for participation and look forward to participating in this one myself! :aaaaa:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  2. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Oh it's so on, I am honored to be able to put forth all info and in every way to comply in order to show the WS is a very safe and efficient unit in its class. I will begin the process and take steps in that direction as soon as possible and try to do this is an a very timely manner. Thanks again and I look forward to working with you on this!
     
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  3. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    list of all components in your Woodscents Vaporizer, including all of the relevant materials used,

    Woods -


    WoodScents utilizes the world’s finest and rarest woods for housing the internals and components. Wood is sourced from all over the world, having been in this business for over 10 years I have developed great relationships with wood dealers that strive to only source sustainable harvested wood species. I have a dealer that has a large plantation himself in South America he purchased over 50 years ago and has been growing local tress there for this purpose as not too harm other native forests and take away from local farmers and families. He works with the locals to help on the plantation brings jobs to the area and opportunities to those who may not have any at all. I only deal with a few companies here in the US now to ensure that my money is spent wisely and ethically. I do have a few smaller dealers outside the US that also take the utmost care and respect to Mother Nature when harvesting their native timbers. One I have in Jamaica at Tropic Ventures Ms. 3T Vakil, they spend most their time researching and cataloging the habitat and the effects of human interaction there. Its wonderful place where they have volunteers come down for days to weeks to help in many ways doing this research. I have for a while wanted to take my sons and be a part of this. 3T has told me the invite is always there and besides a tent and the rain forest that's about as good as it gets as far as 5 star lol. Maybe one day when my youngest is a bit older who knows would be fun!
     
  4. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Glad to see that you make the effort to source your wood ethically man. Whilst this does not relate to vape user safety, it certainly can relate to the safety and wellbeing of workers in the respective locations.

    I look forward to hearing more about the other materials and especially the vapor path as we put the Woodscents through the paces :biggrin: I sure hope that you didn't lose a bunch of writing yesterday with the problems that the site was experiencing!
     
  5. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Good evening sir, I understand the requirements and just wanted to start from the outside in. I took photos and edited pics for all internal components but the heater I knew I was forgetting something just ran out of time is all. I do feel it's important to explain my wood sources as well as without the wood there is no log. Also want everyone to know that safety is first and foremost from start to finish as in all my work. Honesty and transparency are utmost!
     
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  6. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    100% understand brother, I am surprised during the recent VA connectivity issues that you were able to respond so quickly with any information, that alone must have taken some perseverance! Kudos for that :biggrin:

    I should clarify that I do think that your description of the sourcing of wood is relevant for customers in the way that you suggest and am glad that you shared it here :peace: I am personally glad to hear that you take such care to select safe wood from sources who do right by their workers and the environment. I am sure others here appreciate this too :clap:
     
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  7. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    @herbivore21 Thanks so much my man, I appreciate your understanding for my way of thinking.

    Ok so here we go further and more in depth,

    list of all components in your WoodScents Vaporizer, including all of the relevant materials used -

    In the below pic you see where the 2.1x5.5mm jack is within the WS body. I do not use solder at all! At the center connection point of the jack I have a SS butt splice connecting one lead from the heater to the jack. At the right side of the jack you will see I have SS crimp slipped over the jack connection with the other side of the heater lead crimped onto that point. Both of these connections are solid and true. You cant see in this pic but where the leads from the heater come through the dividing wall is a small 1/8" hole through it. After I push the leads through and set the depth of the heater I push a tightly twisted tiny amount of cotton into this hole just to seal it off is all. This hole is 1/2" through the interior dividing wall. The cotton just goes into this lead through hole a small amount.

    [​IMG]

    Looking down into the barrel of the WS into my test piece you can see there is a high temp oring, this oring is rated to handle temps as much as 650F degrees. In this pic you can actually see the test results of a 50 straight hour run of extreme temps at maximum on the temp control dial. The tiny bits of wood shavings you see are from removing the SS screws that are used to hold the Ti base in. I wish I had gotten more light in there but you can see in this Cherry test piece the only discoloring within there is at the screw holes into the bottom cavity. I had tested it and looked at it a couple different times that's why you see multiple holes. You can see the Oring still looks good. During this test I probed the Ti base where you will see in the WS logo cutouts and at max temp at the cutout the temp probe read 250F, this was a great great finding proving that the Ti it self retains less heat than other metals commonly used. It also mean there is very minimal heat transfer from metal to wood at the base edges. This ensures the longevity of the unit.

    [​IMG]

    In the pic below is an upclose of the Oring that is in the above pic.

    [​IMG]

    You can see there is no deterioration nor degradation at all after 50 continuous hours of max heater temp of 650F.

    [​IMG]

    In the above pic you can see my heater, its a SS cased cartridge heater with high temp lead shields connected to the jack with the same configuration as in the pic above showing it within the lower WS cavity. I have a K-type probe wire tied to the cartridge, this is where I registered 650F across the heater.

    Below is my Ti med grade 2 air path,

    [​IMG]

    You can see where the Ti tubing is pressed into the Ti med grade 2 mounting base plate. At the connection of the air path/base plate you can see the small cutouts, they are there to lesson the amount of heat transfer between the two. On the base plate you can also see the WS logo cutouts, there are 3 of these, them and the cutouts near the air path all combined are the air inlets. There are no air inlet holes in the air path tubing like what has been done in the early WS prototype. Having the air inlets in the base like this and being Ti retaining less heat means the air has more metal to travel across and longer time across the heater as well providing for longer heating times during draws. You cant really see that well in the pic but at the top of the air path is a Ti med grade filter disc to stop debris from falling within the air path. The large round hole is the screw mounting hole, there are 3 of these around the base.

    I have also learned alot from the launch and roll out. I am going to begin implementing a process of quality control for each and every unit and its power controls from start to finish from build to assembly to bench test performance. I have worked up a check list and will mark each and every aspect of it and will send a copy of each QC check with each unit to show its been through this process. I will also be stamping the inside of each WS for tracking purposes and also warranty issues if any. I will keep the original WS QC Checklist with its corresponding # for record and tracking also. So from here on the customer will receive the QC PPW for their own records.

    [​IMG]

    I hope this explains it all well and if I missed anything pls let me know. I look forward to questions and comments.

    Gotta get out to the shop been on this PC long enough, time is moving along!
     
  8. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Thanks for the above post, this covers almost everything we need to know :D

    I have some questions and points of clarification below, I have highlighted the main questions in bold, the non-bold text are accompanying comments that do not necessarily need a response as such :smile:

    Glad to see that you have avoided solder and used crimp terminals etc from safe materials. This is important stuff!

    I need to ask what the insulation on the wires in there is made out of, alongside any recommendations relating to temp tolerance from the manufacturer? I am not overly concerned about this as you have measured temps in this area and most insulation should be fine at those temps. We still need to cover this to be thorough :)

    This is fantastic. The only question I have remaining re: the gasket is to confirm the material that those o-rings are made out of. Is that silicone, or another polymer? Regardless, the temps you have measured down there are not like to be any concern, but we do need to identify all materials :biggrin:

    Thank you for taking a moment to explain that the woodchips are due to the teardown. I take it that these woodchips/dust are not present normally in retail units sent out to customers as of course those screws would be in place - please correct me if I am wrong?
    By 'high-temp lead shields', are you describing the insulation around these wires, or a plug or similar that sits at the point at which the wires terminate with the heater assembly to protect those wires and insulation from the heat above?

    I am curious about whether much of that 650f heat is hitting the black insulation on those wires - and as above, what that insulation is made out of. Especially because it looks like the airflow comes in past those wires, it is important to establish that these are not going to be subjected to inappropriate temps. Of course, there may be no problem at all here but it is important that I take the time to make sure.

    Is there a ceramic cartridge inside the heater assembly? Do the wires or insulation also sit inside of that tube section which has the heater inside - or do the wires only sit below the WS cut-out metal plate? It might be helpful if we could get a pic looking inside of the heater tube where the wires go in to give a clearer idea of this component too.

    Can we also get an overview of the stock mouthpiece/stem that comes with your vape, as this is the vast majority of the 'vapor path' in my understanding of the WS. We're well on our way to having fully gone over all of the air path though, and so far (pending the above questions), things are looking good :clap:

    This is fantastic. I yearn for the day when all manufacturers take such a rigorous approach to QC of their products. You ought to be commended for this level of transparency and diligence in testing products individually before they leave your facilities.

    Thankyou for your ongoing participation here. So far all of our Vape Safety participants have done a wonderful job here. I am thrilled with the participation and transparency shown in this part of the Asylum! :beer-toast1:
     
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  9. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    @herbivore21 I am glad you like what I have done so far, did take some time and following up on these points you asked about will take a bit too but am sure you are cool with a few days before I am able to get to that. Gotta hit shop hard today, boys have shooting competition tomorrow, saw the tax lady yesterday wasn't good at all, hadn't thought they would nail me as hard as they did, some write offs I thought would qualify didn't and oh so not cool. Gotta nut up and get some dough in serious but I assure you all is good and the above mentions are easy and just gotta type it out and am not a one sentence kinda guy as am sure you know fine and well. Thanks for the liking what you've seen so far and doing what you do, makes what I do recognized by all others!
     
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  10. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Oh man the taxman is unfriendly sometimes isn't he!

    No problem on taking some time to tend to important stuff, my friend. We'll look forward to continuing when you return :biggrin:
     
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  11. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Good morning, forgive me for the delay @herbivore21

    "I need to ask what the insulation on the wires in there is made out of, alongside any recommendations relating to temp tolerance from the manufacturer?
    I am not overly concerned about this as you have measured temps in this area and most insulation should be fine at those temps. We still need to cover this to be thorough :)"

    The Leads are shielded by using high temp PTFE it is rated for the temp of the heater. There is minimal heat transfer from the cartridge to the leads.

    "The only question I have remaining re: the gasket is to confirm the material that those o-rings are made out of. Is that silicone, or another polymer?"

    The orings are also PTFE and rated for way above the temps that reach the outer edge of the Ti mounting base.

    "I take it that these woodchips/dust are not present normally in retail units sent out to customers as of course those screws would be in place - please correct me if I am wrong?"

    Yes sir, you are correct these were only present after disassembly. I make damn sure the WS is free of the most smallest debris before sending.

    "Is there a ceramic cartridge inside the heater assembly? Do the wires or insulation also sit inside of that tube section which has the heater inside - or do the wires only sit below the WS cut-out metal plate? It might be helpful if we could get a pic looking inside of the heater tube where the wires go in to give a clearer idea of this component too."

    In the 4th pic down you can see the heater itself, it is encased in a SS covering. When it is mounted within the airpath the lead entry point is just at the base of the Ti tube, where they pass through the bottom separating wall. The distance is only about an 1/8th". You can see below this is the airpath, the heater is mounted within it and sits as I said just at the bottom of the tube

    [​IMG]



    "Can we also get an overview of the stock mouthpiece/stem that comes with your vape, as this is the vast majority of the 'vapor path' in my understanding of the WS."

    As far as the wood stem and wong, they are all matching the species of the WS itself. They are simply just a straight bore hole through with the Ti tip pushed inside. There is nothing more nor anything added. easy peasy! The glass stem and gong are simply glass themselves.

    Omgosh the day at the tax lady wasnt good, I have never in my life owed so much money, so not happy but it what it is and thankfully I have a year to get it all paid, so hoping for a solid year to get all this done.

    I hope I have answered all your questions well enough and pls do let me know if you need more clarification. I appreciate your enthusiasm and look to hear more of it and thank you for your time in doing this![/quote]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2017
  12. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Welcome back my friend! I apologise for not responding sooner, I am in the middle of one of the busiest parts of an scientific research project and as the project's lead researcher, I can't always take as much time to contribute here as I would like to.

    Now that I've got some time though, let's see if we can't finish this safety review.

    PTFE should be sufficient to withstand the heat in this location, I agree. Even if somehow the full 650f was transferred into the leads and insulation, this is not even necessarily hot enough to cause PTFE deformation/melting depending on the specific manufacturing of that PTFE. From the temps that you mentioned measuring below the heater, I trust that your wiring insulation should be safe in this scenario.

    Again, great news! I agree that this should be no problem as you say.

    I kinda already guessed that this would be the case, but had to make it explicit for due diligence and to make sure that any readers here can know this too :)


    No problem, all of this sounds good! Just to confirm, there is no wiring insulation inside the Ti encased heater cartridge?

    Excellent. I've used your wooden stems before as you know. Whilst I do not prefer wood in a vapor path these days, I would not call it unsafe. Your wood IME has been well finished/treated and I am happy to say that I already viewed your stems as a safe product. Having them outlined here is merely a formality lol. The glass stems are obviously as safe as can be. We all love glass with our vapes!

    Damn man! Doesn't sound like a good tax year at all! Hopefully, it is a good profit year though, so you can pay those taxes and still come out ahead. I'm sure that now that you've thrown your hat into the vaporizer manufacturing arena, you'll see income increasing :biggrin:

    You have indeed satisfied all of my questions and criteria here. At this point, we've got two minor lingering questions as far as I can see it:

    1. You mention that the wires travel roughly 1/8th of an inch into the titanium heater cartridge/tube section. Is there PTFE insulation around this part of the wiring inside of the titanium tube?

    2. I have noticed that your product seems to have something stuck to the bottom of the base on the outside of the unit to make this part softer to put down on a hard surface. You can see the soft bottom part in the following pic from your site:

    [​IMG]

    What is this soft bottom part made out of and how is it stuck into place? Can we clarify whether any adhesives used for this part are outside of the air/vapor path?

    With answers to these last two questions, I am confident that we've covered all of your vape for safety purposes :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  13. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Good morning sunshine @herbivore21, I am glad you like what I have done when getting back and no need for apologies I have taken long enough to get back to my last post and I understand that you have a life as well and arent sitting back next to your monitor waiting for mentions to you.

    1. You mention that the wires travel roughly 1/8th of an inch into the titanium heater cartridge/tube section. Is there PTFE insulation around this part of the wiring inside of the titanium tube?

    In the pic below, sorry its not an opposite view, the PTFE covers the leads directly into the casing leaving nothing exposed.

    [​IMG]

    2. What is this soft bottom part made out of and how is it stuck into place? Can we clarify whether any adhesives used for this part are outside of the air/vapor path?

    This is a tooled leather bottom that has minimal amount of elmers glue holding it in place, its the same kind kids take to school that tends to make it in their mouths at times as well lol. You will notice in my very first pic above looking in the bottom cavity there is a step down so to speak kinda shoulder. Like in logs of past this is where a thick piece of cardboard is placed to reinforce the bottom before the leather bottom is put in place. I explained above also that where the leads come through the dividing wall there is a small piece of cotton pressed into this tiny hole plugging it tightly so no air may travel into or out from the lower cavity.

    I hope this covers the last 2 questions you have and that I have been as helpful and as transparent as you mentioned. I feel its very important to do this and do my part as a manufacturer being upfront and honest!
     
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  14. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Greetings my friend! The glue seems to be no problem, since it is on the outside of the log. With the temps you measured inside the log and told us about a while ago, I am quite confident that the glue could not be heated to the point of volatilization or decomposition (>570f). Good to hear that you plugged up the air intake from that side just the same :biggrin:

    Also from what I can see, the teflon insulation stops at the base of the heater cylinder pictured in your last post. With that being the case, I find it very unlikely that this would reach high enough temps during use to be volatilized from the heat coming off the cylinder (save for some unlikely scenario like if the unit was left upside down for a very long time at temps that would surely cause combustion - for anyone reading who has a Woodscents vape, don't do that! :rofl:).

    Given all of this, I think that we can give the Woodscents our first Safety Approval! :aaaaa:

    Congratulations for putting your product through the gauntlet successfully my friend! I'll be sure to let @momofthegoons know to indicate as such in the Woodscents thread over in the vape section as well! Thank you for your participation and giving me the chance to get so intimately acquainted with your vape!
     
  15. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Hey hey, what a great day! I thank you for your roll you had in this and for all the others that will follow. I feel its necessary for all to do what is needed to show they are offering a solid and healthy unit for their customers. As you said it is not required but who wouldnt want to have this approval, its makes sense. My man if you are happy I am ecstatic and thankful to you and @momofthegoons and others here at VA for all yall do!

    Now where the heck is my approval stamp, dont I get one or what, after all this I oughta get something if not a hug or a cookie a dang stamp at least :thinker::aaaaa::rofl:lol!
     
  16. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    It was a pleasure my friend, and also has been wonderful to spend some time talking to you here, which is also always a pleasure! You take care man!

    By the way, you actually will get a shiney :star: stamp next to the vape title in this thread and the thread over in the vape section - but that requires some special voodoo that only @momofthegoons practices :dog:
     
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  17. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    @herbivore21 Likewise chief! Sweet cant wait to get my STAR, @momofthegoons is going to have to get her butt in gear, I got some showing off to do :aaaaa::aaaaa::aaaaa:
     
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  18. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons Nurse Ratched Staff Member

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    Well the good news is that you are our first vaporizer to undergo and pass our safety tests. Congratulations @Ed's TnT !!! :headbang: :partyhat: :beer-toast1: :biggrin:

    The bad news is that I can't get a smilie (in this case the star) to load in the title of a thread. I'll have to think on this and come up with another solution. One thing we could do is put ***VAS APPROVED*** in the title (before or after the vape name). How does that sound? I can also add a blurb to the OP stating that this vape has undergone the safety test here.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  19. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    @momofthegoons Woot woot hooray for the WS! So thankful to you and all you do!

    Ohhhh that is so crummy, ugghhhh no star ohhhhh Lord I thought I was funally going to get a star, some folks get a star on a hollywood side walk some get a star named after em, ohhhhhh all I wanted was to be a star aslo or have a star and now all I can get it text ohhhhhhhh Lord when will I ever be a star??????????

    hmmmm I guess in front would be ok, thanks much!
     
  20. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons Nurse Ratched Staff Member

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    Lol you're a star in my book Ed. :biggrin: And I'll see if I can't work one in there somewhere...

    EDIT: I think adding the approval to the beginning of the title could get confusing when/if more vapes receive their approval. I think putting it at the end is a bit better and will make it easier to find each specific vape.

    However, I have decided that VAS approved vapes will be stickied and the first vapes featured in the threads. I also added the :star: to my note in the OP that the vape had met the VAS safety standards.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017