Meds Kief

[Baron23]

There are loads of different pollen extractor designs. This one has an interesting background track...

I hate that video and it contains most of the features that I dislike in videos. Why people think viewers want to see around and waste time and look at non-informative intros, stupid music, other crap. The actual content about this device was what...45 seconds of the entire vid.

Its why I don't watch a lot of vids...too much filler and time wasting crap. Give me your info quick, clear, and to the point, please.

 

[Killick]

I chose this one as it's short and shows how a drysifter works. I tend to dislike videos full of people seemingly getting paid by the word, and presenting 2:30 of video in 45 minutes. It's odd that you'd find a sub 3:00 minute video to be overly long. I don't like the machine they use, but in this instance the music made up for that.

While we're on the subject of things we dislike, people who use bright yellow font to add info to posts should be forced to try read lemon yellow on white background all day, every day. I can't read it, so it gets missed. It's unfortunate, as there might actually be some useful info in there.

 

[Killick]

While we're on the topic of kief, here's 1/2 oz worth, sonicating in 350 ml of apple cider vinegar. To help bump the extraction it also got about 1/2 oz of EverClear, just to speed things up a bit.

Will give it a few whirls in the machine and see how it shakes out...

 

[Killick]

***warning - warning - warning - long, educational and informative video alert! If you dislike videos you won't like this one.***

**Anti-warning - this is informative, showing how to process lbs of product into dry sift. It's informative if you are considering sift in your own processing facility.**

Scroll to 18 minutes to get to the first bit of interesting content - bouncing un-trimmed herb onto large screens to collect pollen..

Scroll to the 30 minute mark to see them loading a large APE, running it, and harvesting pollen, aka kief.



PS - Bubbleman - if you happen to follow VA, thanks for the first 18 minutes of home movies of your trip across from the island. People that haven't make the voyage may enjoy it...

 

[LesPlenty]

@Killick what material and micron size would the sift de-budding work table in the video use? I would like to try making one and use it instead of just clipping my buds into buckets.

 

[Stevenski]

While we're on the subject of things we dislike, people who use bright yellow font to add info to posts should be forced to try read lemon yellow on white background all day, every day. I can't read it, so it gets missed. It's unfortunate, as there might actually be some useful info in there.

I think most people use the dark background so when posting yellow text it really stands out.

I meant to watch 30 seconds of that long video you posted & ended up watching it all. A combination of envy & intrigue kept me going. DO they then resift that through finer screens to get the different grades? If only it was legal here...

 

[Killick]

what material and micron size would the sift de-budding work table in the video use?

The material tends to be nylon silk screen mesh, similar to whats used to make rosin press bags. I buy it on Amazon. I use the same micron size as bubble hash, collecting anything smaller than 180-ish micron.

Sometimes micron is measured in mesh, so here's a helpful conversion chart: http://www.universalfilters.com/MMCC.html

DO they then resift that through finer screens to get the different grades?

I watch a bunch of Frenchy Canolli, the Hashishin, who runs bubble hash workshops around the planet. He's also recorded presentations that are very detailed and show an awful lot of setup and run. He also chats throughout the workshop, and if you listen (and read - with his accent they have added subtitles to many vids). One item I picked up was that trichome size isn't the actual target - he uses the different microns in the bag so he can tell what is being released from the plant. He then combines all the output together into uniform-sized patties and puts the patties into a pharmaceutical freeze dryer to purge the solvent, in this case water, from the patties.

So when doing bubble hash, as well as dry sift, trichomes that are released earlier are riper. That is what they are collecting on initial screen bounce. To get the less ripe trichomes requires more sieving. The stuff that comes off earlier, like bouncing on screens, and the first couple of 3 minute runs in the APE will be the '6 star, full melt' trichomes. The longer runs are used for edibles and topicals, which can have more plant matter and it won't matter. To answer your question about further refining my take on it is that the grades are based more on when the trichomes release from the plant -
higher grade = more ripe=fall off pLANT easier=less plant matter in final product
lower grade = more work to extract=more plant matter in end product, requiring further refining, depending on intended use - clean for vaping/pressing, leave for edibles and topicals.

This is a great video showing how to set up and run a bubble wash, using two different methods of agitation. Bubble hash, like dry sift, is another form of sieving. The micron sizing used is 220 for trim bag, with collection being done from 190 micron to 45 micron. He uses 190 just to see what comes throigh it - if trichomes keep, if plant matter back into the machine, and go to the next lower bag.

It's an interesting concept that takes a bit of time to get your brain wrapped around. Its been rattling around in my brain for a couple of years now, and it's slowly starting to make sense...

**Warning! Warning! Long and very helpful video follows:
PS - if Frenchy is on here - thanks for all the work you do teaching, and thanks for these excellent, descriptive videos.

 

[arb]

Seems super over complicated and ridiculously over priced for such a simple process.

 

[Killick]

Seems super over complicated and ridiculously over priced for such a simple process.

Overcomplicated in what way? I consider solvent extractions to be overly complicated due to the toxins involved and need to purge afterwards. None of the videos discuss pricing, and you don't indicate what pricing you are speaking to so don't have an answer for that, other than to suggest that the only overhead cost for either kiefing method discussed above is a bit of screen material, and a bit of power to run either the APE or the bubble washing machine. Cost would seem to be more of a consideration using hydrocarbon or alcohol solvents, as they are neither cheap nor readily available, whereas most everyone can find reasonably priced water.

In the last video they run 5 lbs for 12 to 24 hours. At the end of that run they have around a lb of 'concentrate'. The amount of human interaction is minimal - fill machine, turn on, come back in 12-24 hours and scoop it into a zip. Seems like a good use of time to me. Others may like to be fully engaged with the extraction and purge, but it's still a sub-standard product that needs to be purged of toxins before it can be ingested. Solvent extractions are meant for people who think they are saving time somehow - dispensary operators and others who don't really understand the difference between solvent extractions and sieve separation.

Given the opportunity to dab/vape/consume something extracted with hydrocarbons, alcohol, water, or no solvent, I'll take no solvent or water any time. Rosin pressed from either is like dabbing jam, especially with the Dabpress driptech unit at low temp/low pressure goodness.

 

[arb]

I don't use solvents or water............do you do sales?

 

[momofthegoons]

do you do sales?

Sales?

 

[arb]

Killick is very persuasive in his\ her rhetoric..............I meant it as a compliment regards his\her oratory abilities.

 

[Killick]

@arb Nah, just a semi-retired engineer who likes testing things out. I've been trying to find a workable method of extracting. It's taken me a couple of years to get to this idea. 5 years ago I was on a swack of pills, until my pain doc got me onto cannabis ("you're kidding, right? Thats like using M&Ms to control pain, no?"). I then learned that I'm heavily overburdened in a few different chemicals, and have been working on chelation and avoiding introducing any new toxins. I've tried most every extraction method, and it's only recently that I discovered how simple it is to use screens. Bubble is more awkward, and the two times I tried it resulted in more shoulder injuries. The Frenchy video shows how he drains into a bucket that is attached to a water pump, so he's not having to beat the bags up, like the other videos I watched.

I have nothing to sell, but I do enjoy educating people. If you learn nothing more from this thread than there are alternate methods to perform extractions then mission accomplished. This is low-cost, low-tech, and can be as efficient as the operator wants it to be.

 

[arb]

Well I appreciate what you are doing and enjoy watching all the ideas for sure.
I also use dry sift for health reasons and have been making it for a few decades........trying quite a few different ways.
Some I avoided off the get(butane,denatured alcohol)some I tried till I realized(water,dry ice,bags)still keep coming back to manual separation and screening for quickest best quality.
Don't get me wrong given 100 pounds of product and a limited time the washing machine and bags are coming out but a few pounds for me and mine only takes me a couple hours to bounce is all.
The equipment for that is nothing and seems to last for a long time..........so far.
I just hate for anyone to think it needs to be hard or complicated and expensive you can get some really high end results with a small investment and minimal elbow grease.

 

[Stevenski]

I think I have maybe .3 in my grinder of decent looking kief. Gonna have that later tonight & just enjoy what little I have. Very fascinating @Killick.

 

[Killick]

but a few pounds for me and mine only takes me a couple hours to bounce is all.
The equipment for that is nothing and seems to last for a long time..........so far.
I just hate for anyone to think it needs to be hard or complicated and expensive you can get some really high end results with a small investment and minimal elbow grease.

We're on the same page brother (or maybe sister, or pick your fave other gender). The idea of dry-sift as standalone extraction method has some real appeal. I have alcohol extraction experience but could never purge it to the point where it was really suitable for vaping. Pressing rosin from bud was OK. Kief/sift works fine for most everything, but it almost seems to easy to do, and everyone seems to be more interested in solvent extractions, and the only reason I can think of is speed. But adding purge time, and vacuum ovens, lab-grade solvents, etc etc means they need to charge more to cover the cost of time and equipment, whereas sift is a screen and some shaking.

Thanks for your comments. I've been trying to find ways to poke holes in sieve tek, but I can't find a lot of weaknesses in kiefing as an extraction method, other than doing large volumes, which things like the APE do. Do you think an extended run in a sift unit could take the place of a bubble run?

@Stevenski Glad you enjoyed the tour - I'm learning myself, but I've been learning that rosin makes a great dabbable product without solvent, and kief makes great rosin, so it all seems to make a bit of sense somehow.

Here we have the French-made Pollen Extractor. It's around 160 USD with free shipping. I've not used one, but will likely wind up with one for small batches (I haven't found a reasonably priced motor as yet, and a drill doesn't do quite what I'm after.)



This one looks better for large batches.

 

[arb]

That things tiny and the motor is going to fail pretty fast........my guess.
I can bounce a pound a hour very easily across my frame and screen gimmick using a tattoo machine.
I should be doing a run after next trim sesh which should be wrapped up mid april.......so maybe a 4-20 bounce party pictorial is in order.
Frankly I could use the distraction and have I been sorely neglecting my garden lately.

 

[Killick]

Or the old-fangled method... Moroccan drumTek?

 

[Killick]

Back in the kitchen with Betty Crocker... Here we have 4 strains, just going into the oven...

 

[Killick]

Double post. This one shows 3 grams of kief dissolving in a very little EverClear. Once it's dissolved it gets a cup of vg and into the sonicator. The motion of the sonicator keeps the VG moving, which allows it to absorb more of our special ingredient...