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Meds Cannabis and Driving

felvapes

Well-Known Member
I was not talking about negatives here, that is the fun with forums, differing views. I meant the legislator noisemakers, I try to never drive as I would always have THC in my blood. If I was in an accident, even if not at fault, I would be the guilty party due to having hooch in my system (even if it was from the day or week before)
I know you like to take the bike for a blat mate
Same deal there
And as you say you can quit now and still have it in your blood 3 months later
Spit tests can pick it up 1-3 weeks later if it isn't giving false positives anyway

For safety, it's about impairment and how stoned you are or how much you have consumed - which will vary per person and their tolerance
Tests can't check this though, only for presence

They don't test for for heroin or coke either - which happen to be "higher" society drugs these days
Parliament house toilets had more cocaine on the cisterns than a Sydney night club when tested
 

LesPlenty

Well-Known Member
I know you like to take the bike for a blat mate

I only take her out on cold clear mornings, before I partake in the good stuff and take the back road loop from my place for a 25 minute ride where all I usually see is sheep!
 

felvapes

Well-Known Member
I only take her out on cold clear mornings, before I partake in the good stuff and take the back road loop from my place for a 25 minute ride where all I usually see is sheep!
That doesn't change your point about being in your system if you had an accident and fell off avoiding a rogue sheep

Or mine about level of impairment being the issue as with legal levels of alcohol

EDIT
25 mins is just a warm up ride ......
 

momofthegoons

Vapor Accessory Addict
Staff member
Marijuana and Psychomotor Performance

Operating a motor vehicle under the influence of cannabis is a criminal offense in every state, irrespective of cannabis’ legal status under the law.

In assessments of actual on-road driving performance, subjects typically demonstrate only modest changes in psychomotor performance following THC administration
The combined administration of cannabis and alcohol typically has an additive influence upon psychomotor performance, which can lead to significantly reduced performance and increased odds of accident
By contrast, THC positive drivers, absent the presence of alcohol, typically possess a low — or even no — risk of motor vehicle accident compared to drug-negative drivers.

  • “In this multi-site observational study of non-fatally injured drivers, we found no increase in crash risk, after adjustment for age, sex, and use of other impairing substances, in drivers with THC <5ng/mL. For drivers with THC≥5ng/mL there may be an increased risk of crash responsibility, but this result was statistically non-significant and further study is required. … There was significantly increased risk in drivers who had used alcohol, sedating medications, or recreational drugs other than cannabis. … Our findings … suggest that the impact of cannabis on road safety is relatively small at present time.”
    Cannabis use as a risk factor for causing motor vehicle crashes: a prospective study, Addiction, 2019
  • “As noted above, even if cannabis impairment is present, it creates (unless combined with alcohol or other drugs) only a fraction of the risks associated with driving at the legal 0.08 BAC threshold, let alone the much higher risks associated with higher levels of alcohol. … The maximum risk for cannabis intoxication alone, unmixed with alcohol or other drugs, appears to be more comparable to risks such as talking on a hands-free cellphone (legal in all states) than to driving with a BAC above 0.08, let alone the rapidly-rising risks at higher BACs.”
    Driving while stoned: Issues and policy options, BOTEC Analysis/SSRN white paper, 2018

By comparison, operating a vehicle with multiple passengers or after consuming even slight amounts of alcohol are behaviors associated with greater risk of motor vehicle accident

Data has not substantiated claims of an uptick in marijuana-induced fatal accidents in states that have regulated the use of cannabis for medical purposes, and some data has identified a decrease in motor vehicle accidents.

By contrast, data assessing the potential impact of adult-use legalization access on motor vehicle accidents is more mixed. Initial reports published in the years immediately following legalization consistently showed no change in accident trends, while more recent studies assessing longer time periods report inconsistent findings.

    • “[The] implementation of recreational cannabis laws was associated with increases in traffic fatalities in Colorado but not in Washington state. … Findings suggest that adverse unintended effects of recreational cannabis laws can be heterogeneous and may depend on variations in implementation of these laws (e.g., density of recreational cannabis stores).”
      Association of recreational cannabis laws in Colorado and Washington state with changes in traffic
      fatalities, 2005-2017, JAMA Internal Medicine, 2020
    • “Following the recent release of 2018 roadway fatality re- ports by the US Department of Transportation, we analyzed data from more states over a longer period of commercial sales to get a better understanding of the relationship between legalization of recreational marijuana and traffic fatalities. … By analyzing additional experimental states over a more recent time period, we have provided additional data that legalization of recreational marijuana is associated with in- creased traffic fatality rates. … Our conclusions, nonetheless, are limited by adjusting for only 3 state-specific factors that may have changed during the study period. It is possible that another confounder, rather than marijuana legalization and commercialization, caused the observed increase in roadway deaths.”
      Changes in traffic fatality rates in the first four states to legalize recreational marijuana, JAMA Internal Medicine, 2020
Proposed per se thresholds for THC are not evidence-based and may result in inadvertently criminalizing adults who previously consumed cannabis several days earlier but are no longer under the influence


 
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CarolKing

Always in search of the perfect vaporizer
CNN
Chemistry published the findings of a University of California-San Francisco study that showed THC could be detected in breath for up to three hours after smoking and that there's a correlation between THC concentrations and blood concentrations for that initial period. The study was sponsored by Oakland, California-based Hound Labs, a venture capital-backed company that has raised $65 million to develop a dual alcohol and THC breathalyzer.
Hound Labs' THC breathalyzer


Hound Labs' THC breathalyzer
After a person blows into the handheld Hound device for two minutes, the cartridge is read in a separate bay that acts like a mini mass spectrometer, which can measure the mass and concentration of specific molecules. If THC is detected, the word "warning" will display on the screen. The Hound device is intended to capture and measure tiny particles of THC in human breath to help determine if someone consumed cannabis in the two-to-three hours prior to testing.
"We aren't measuring impairment, we're measuring THC in breath where it lasts a very short period of time, providing objective data about THC in breath to law enforcement and employers to use in conjunction with other information they have gathered," said Hound Labs founder Mike Lynn, an emergency room doctor, reserve deputy sheriff and venture capitalist.
The problems with testing drivers for cannabis
Cannabis compounds, notably THC, don't behave like alcohol does in the body. Alcohol is classified as a depressant that can slow down the nervous system. It's quickly absorbed in the blood and metabolized quickly, according to the CRS report.
Cannabis has a complex interplay with the body's endocannabinoid system, and its effects can be either immediate or delayed depending on the form of consumption. THC potency can vary in strains and in products. Hybrid strains can be bred to enhance certain effects such as pain relief, anxiety reduction and muscle spasticity, Morrow said, adding that people can have different reactions to cannabis' effects.
Minimal research exists on how cannabis affects driving. Although some of the most notable cannabis research has occurred in Israel, there are longstanding complaints that federal research in the US has been hindered by low-potency and poor-quality cannabis samples.
It's yet to be determined exactly how the hundreds of other compounds in the cannabis plant could potentially affect the testing processes.
Further complicating matters are attitudes that it's safer to drive while high than it is drunk.
It's been difficult to detect and capture THC in breath, leading to some skepticism about the accuracy of the early stage breathalyzers. A battery of peer-review studies showing the devices in action would go a long way, said Brian Clowers, an associate professor of chemistry at Washington State University.
The elephant in the room remains that the devices do not determine impairment. Someone could conceivably use or consume a small dose without being high, yet still could have THC detected in their breath.
Because pass-fail tests do not prove impairment, that can create problems for patients in the more than 30 US states where cannabis is a legal medicine, said Benton Bodamer, an M&A, private equity and cannabis attorney at Dickinson Wright's office in Columbus, Ohio.
"That's a recipe for a public health disaster," he said. "There's not a pass/fail opioid breathalyzer, so why would some different rules apply in the context of medical cannabis?"
Additionally, even the seemingly tried-and-true drug and alcohol tests haven't been completely foolproof and some states have tossed driving-under-the-influence convictions for technology failures such as poor calibration.

"Scientific precision requires the absence of bias, for example," he said. "One look at the mass prosecution, conviction, and incarceration of communities of color for simple non-violent drug possession shows how that particular story ends."
And the issue of impairment is not limited to cannabis.
"Anybody who believes you're going to look at alcohol or other drugs in a vacuum is mistaken," said Sheriff Justin Smith, of Larimer County in northern Colorado. Smith said that his office continues to see more incidences in which suspects were under the influence of multiple drugs.
Some polydrug tests have been increasingly adopted following cannabis legalization. That's been the case for healthcare company Abbott's SoToxa rapid mobile drug screening test. The handheld device, which analyzes a saliva sample in five minutes, is being used in Canada, Spain and US states such as Michigan, Alabama and Oklahoma, said Fred Delfino, Abbott's senior law enforcement liaison.
"Because marijuana isn't the only drug that can cause impairment, Abbott has engineered SoToxa to detect if someone has also recently used cocaine, opiates, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, and methamphetamine, in addition to marijuana," he said via email.

Seems like to me if you have enough money for a lawyer you could get out of a cannabis breathalyzer test. I’ve read cannabis levels can be all over the place. Not really all that accurate, I’ve heard with blood testing.
 
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momofthegoons

Vapor Accessory Addict
Staff member
Study: THC Persists in Blood for Extended Periods of Time Post-Abstinence

Vancouver, Canada: The detection of THC in blood at levels greater than 2ng/ml may persist for extended periods of time and therefore it is not necessarily indicative of recent cannabis exposure, according to datapublished in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence.

Investigators affiliated with the University of British Columbia performed a systematic review of the relevant literature assessing residual THC plasma levels in frequent cannabis consumers.

Authors reported: “n all studies where participants were observed for over a day, blood THC [levels] in some participants remained detectable during several days of abstinence,” with some subjects continuing to test positive for up to 30 days. Some subjects also demonstrated a so-called “double hump” pattern “where their THC levels rose toward the end of the week after an initial decline.”

Researchers concluded, “The studies in our review consistently demonstrate that positive blood THC levels, even levels over 2ng/ml, do not necessarily indicate recent cannabis use in frequent cannabis users.”

The study’s findings have implications for traffic safety laws, as several US states impose either per se or zero-tolerant per se laws that criminalize the operation of a vehicle by a driver solely based upon the detection of trace levels of THC in one’s blood. NORML opposes the imposition of per se limits for cannabis because the presence of THC in blood, especially at low levels, is not a consistent predictor of either recent use or impairment of performance.

Full text of the study, “Residual blood THC levels in frequent cannabis users after over four hours of abstinence,” appears in Drug and Alcohol Dependence. Additional information is available from the NORML fact sheet, “Marijuana and Psychomotor Performance.”

 

momofthegoons

Vapor Accessory Addict
Staff member

RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA: IMPACT ON TRAFFIC DEATHS


When it comes to marijuana legalization, one of the opposition’s main concerns is whether legal access to cannabis will increase the number of drivers who operate a vehicle in an impaired state.

This is a valid concern. Luckily, states such as Colorado, Washington, and California have had marijuana laws in place long enough for researchers to collect data and better understand the effects of legalization on behaviors such as driving under the influence. Their results may assuage some of these concerns.

According to data collected over several years in each state, legalization has not negatively impacted the number of accidents or traffic fatalities caused by drivers under the influence.

In this article, CannaMD looks at statistics from Colorado, Washington, and California to assess the impact of legalization on traffic accidents and public safety.

FACTORS INFLUENCING RESULTS​

Early data shows that after legalization, Colorado experienced a slight increase in cases of people driving under the influence of cannabis. However, the Colorado Department of Transportation encourages readers to recognize that this may not be the result of legalization itself, instead acknowledging two other factors that may be at play:

INCREASED TESTING​

First and foremost: Prior to legalization, most of states – including Colorado – did not routinely test allegedly intoxicated drivers for marijuana. When drivers suspected of driving under the influence failed breathalyzer tests, additional marijuana testing was viewed as unnecessary, “time consuming and costly,” according to the Colorado Department of Transportation.

Consequently, the Department reminds us that the reported “increase” in cannabis-related DUIs is not necessarily an indication that since legalization more people have been driving under the influence. More likely, it is a consequence of the fact that it was only after legalization that police actually began testing drivers for marijuana use on a routine basis.

As the Colorado Division of Criminal Justice explains:

Legalization has heightened awareness of the need to gather data on marijuana and, in some cases, has led to improvements in data collection that then make analyzing historical trends difficult.
The increase in law enforcement officers who are trained in recognizing drug use [from 2012 to 2014] can increase drug detection rates apart from any changes in driver behavior.

INADEQUATE TESTING​

But this isn’t the only reason that we should take this early data — and its post-legalization projections — with a grain of salt.

Marijuana remains in an individual’s system for up to one month after use, and can cause a positive test anywhere within that time frame. The effects of marijuana, on the other hand, typically last for only a few hours. It follows that many of these positive tests were collected from individuals who were not “impaired.”

According to the Colorado Division of Criminal Justice:

[D]etection of any cannabinoid in blood is not an indicator of impairment but only indicates presence in the system. Detection of Delta‐9 THC, one of the primary psychoactive metabolites of marijuana, may be an indicator of impairment.

MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION & CAR CRASHES​

The same data suggests that despite the increased number of drivers testing positive for THC, recreational legalization has not caused an increase in accidents or traffic fatalities related to driving under the influence of marijuana.

Even in legalized states, alcohol remains the number one factor responsible for traffic fatalities caused by intoxicated drivers. Meanwhile, a 2017 study in the American Journal of Public Health found that:

Three years after recreational marijuana legalization, changes in motor vehicle crash fatality rates for Washington and Colorado were not statistically different from those in similar states without recreational marijuana legalization
Since cannabis legalization, Washington’s number of fatal accidents caused by intoxicated drivers has largely remained the same.

Data from California shows that despite an increase in reports of drivers testing positive for any substance (including alcohol), fatal crashes caused by intoxicated drivers decreased 8.3% from 2017 to 2018.

Data from Colorado shows that accidents related to intoxication by THC have fallen since legalization, while total DUIs have decreased from 5,705 to 4,849 in 2017.

Federal data, meanwhile, shows that Colorado, California, and Washington — the country’s longest legalized states — experienced a lower rate of fatal crashes than Alabama, a non-legalized state, in 2018.

IMPORTANT NOTE​

While encouraging, the data available so far on marijuana legalization and public safety is inconclusive, which is why organizations such as the Colorado Division of Criminal Justice remind readers not to interpret initial findings as definitive evidence of legalization’s positive and/or neutral impact on impaired driving.

Instead, newly legalized states such as Arizona are cautiously optimistic. As former Arizona Director of the Department of Health Services Will Humble notes:

The benefits outweigh the threats.
 

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