Meds Psychoactive Herbs (other than cannabis)

[Disrupt]

Any interest in a thread on other psychoactive plants? While the plants themselves are generally legal, extracting and using the active constituents isn't always. A grey area. For example, recently enjoyed some cactus juice and found it to complement cannabis nicely. If not, feel free to delete.

 

[Killick]

Excellent thread. I have a 'grow it yerself' mushroom kit in the lab fridge, just slow at figuring out how to start it.

 

[Disrupt]

I have a 'grow it yerself' mushroom kit in the lab fridge, just slow at figuring out how to start it.

Thanks! Grown mushrooms in the past (and yeast in grad school). You'll need to sterilize media in a pressure cooker. Then inoculate and let them do their thing. Since the media needs to remain sterile, it' s hands off after that.

Wait - lab fridge? Can you borrow an autoclave? Did that 20 years ago.

 

[Killick]

Don't have access to an autoclave (had an opportunity to repurpose one from an army medical clinic years ago. Missed it by *this* much...)

I do have a pressure cooker tho. The instructions called for a trip boils of material in a large stock pot. I didn't think about the cooker tho...

Will dig up directions and maybe get this started. I'm looking forward to seeing these things pop...

 

[treesaver]

Salvia divinorum is a well known psychoactive herb, but is quite potent and has some serious side effects, as well as potential for dependence if used regularly. I would not recommend it as a "high", but if someone is looking for a legal out of body/mind experience to kind of cleanse their mental pallet, an expanding of the mind experience, it might be of interest. Fair warning, it can be quite intense, recommend a friend and a controlled setting. Just be sure you read up a bit on Erowid before you choose to dive in.

Personally, I tend to like experimenting with dream herbs. Nothing really overwhelming, but enhanced vividity and dream recall can be an amazing experience! Mind you, these improve dreams, not sleep quality.

 

[Basement Farmer]

I miss having salvia. I usually purchased the concentrate because you can smoke plain leaff all day and nothing will happen.

It's not just the immediate effect either, which was generally pretty profound to me, but also the come-down which was relaxing.

To anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to try it, it is very intense and very brief. I would describe it as similar to great sex....I know, weird, but true.

Too bad a few fools on YouTube had to ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[treesaver]

Too bad a few fools on YouTube had to ruin it for the rest of us.

What do you mean by ruin it for us? O.o

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I’ve been playing/working with blue lotus. Inconclusive so far. Absolutely zero result from the 100x extract, but there is a high from the flowers if I ignore the click for a couple of seconds...more of a subtle shift, really...but still....

I miss having salvia. I usually purchased the concentrate because you can smoke plain leaff all day and nothing will happen.

It's not just the immediate effect either, which was generally pretty profound to me, but also the come-down which was relaxing.

To anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to try it, it is very intense and very brief. I would describe it as similar to great sex....I know, weird, but true.

Too bad a few fools on YouTube had to ruin it for the rest of us.

sorry I never got hip to it before the clampdown...I had it highly recommended, but that doesn’t necessarily get things done.

is it actually illegal now, or just unavailable?
UPDATE: did some digging, it’s prohibited or not on a state-by-State basis. Apparently legal in Alabama and Oregon....

 

[treesaver]

I’ve been playing/working with blue lotus. Inconclusive so far.

I absolutely love blue lotus. I wouldn't say that it gives a high, what I experienced was a very mild relaxed euphoria. The aspect in which I think it really shines is that it is a very gentle herb and the dreams that I had following having tea (also eating some of the plant material) were absolutely amazing. Vivid, colorful, otherworldly and memorable. If you haven't had much luck with it, try soaking the plant material in an acidic solution like lemon juice or apple cider vinegar for at least an hour, if not overnight. This may activate some of the alkaloids in the plant. That is the theory of why the Egyptians soaked it in wine. The only side effect I had was slight boating if I ate a larger dose, but that passed quickly. What is the dose you are using and how are you taking it?

Last I looked Salvia divinorum was illegal in only a few states. Now I find this!
"Divinorum is illegal in Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North and South Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Virginia. In Louisiana, North Carolina, and West Virginia, salvia is legal only when it is not intended for human consumption."

What the heck happened that I missed?!

 

[CarolKing]

I would like to know about Kraton and pain. I’m kinda afraid of the stuff. I’ve heard some positve but negative too. Iwoukd worry about the source? You may not know the quality? We have to be careful what we just blindly put in our bodies. It looks like mostly it’s not legal. See I don’t know much. I wouldn’t want it to bring on heart arrhythmia or something like organ failure.

ive been on prednisone all week and don’t feel pain but it’s making me feel extra foggy. Glad I’m done with the treatment but don’t look forward to the pain coming back. Taking extra Vitamin B complex, turmeric combination - with ginger, astragalus, black pepper, ,3000 D Plus a multiple daily anyway.

 

[Basement Farmer]

I would like to know about Kraton and pain. I’m kinda afraid of the stuff. I’ve heard some positve but neg

I have a kilo in my cupboards that I can't bring myself to use.

It's pretty benign stuff, but very gross. How people sit around and drink it in cafes is beyond me. Probably the worst thing that will happen is you'll gag on it. Maybe get nauseous if you take too much. Like opioids, it shuts your GI tract down too...very common side effect.

Im pretty certain the stuff I have jas been cut with something to artificially add weight. It's slightly gritty.....always a risk when you buy something sketchy that originates from an unknown source. Caveat emptor. I did purchase from a reputable vendor....but doubt they agonize over their sources.


Yes, it did seem to help with pain and as a mellowing agent though that observation was highly subjective. I gave up cannabis for a few years and it eased that too. I prefer to spend my money on THC to be honest

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I’ve done some experimentation with kratom, and it seems to require a larger amount than I’m comfortable taking. I’ve only taken it in capsule form (filled ‘em myself), and have encountered no discernible effect taken this way. 6 00 caps, roughly three grams, my typical dose. Reluctant to take more, though I could certainly use some pain relief - I only have OTC options.

Open to suggestions. My source was Kratom Eye, a variety of types, fine powder, not gritty.

@treesaver - thanks for the rec: I drink fire cider, so I will add the flowers/leaves to it & give it a roll. I’ll report back.

Any recommendations on dosage?

 

[treesaver]

Any recommendations on dosage?

I just used a gram, but tend to be sensitive and I didn't mix it with alcohol. I would imagine it would be harder to tell any alteration while intoxicated with alcohol. Mind you, I ate the plant material as well as drinking the tea. I have had mild positive effects as low as half a gram. Some people have taken as much as 5-10g. It's a very mild herb in terms of it's probably not going to hurt you if you take the larger dose, but if less gives you a desired effect, then why bother, is my way of thinking about it. Start small and if that doesn't work, add more would be my recommendation. The center part of the flower, the yellow, has greater concentration of the desired alkaloids.
I like to look at this site to see what other people have done and their experiences. Mind you, some don't report how they take it or how much, so that is something to keep in mind. Personally, I like to be slightly meticulous about records when experimenting.

Erowid Psychoactive Lotus / Lily Vault

Information about Psychoactive Lotus/Lily species including basics, effects, dosage, history, legal status, photos, research, media coverage, and links to other resources.

erowid.org

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I understand about less being enough (no stranger to micro (and sub) micro dosing. As I say, I keep fire cider around (I make it myself!) so adding it to the acidic brew is a go. My attempt to dissolve the extract in alcohol is what seems to have ruined the extract, so not a problem not drinking any. Without herb or alcohol, I’m in need of some gentle euphoria.

Fortunately, I have several ounces of the lotus flowers, so I should be able to fin a decent level...and about the same quantity of Nelumbo nucifera(?). Would your suggest the same ingestion method for it as well?

I also appreciate your comments on Erowid: it’s referred to often, but I often find myself questioning what’s reading (the blue lotus section, for instance). I’ll see if I can’t pay it more heed.

thanks again for your input matters!

 

[treesaver]

You are most welcome! I love talking plants, they are fascinating creatures. Thanks for reminding me how wonderful the blue lotus is. I have not visited with her in a while, I think I'll have a cup tonight. It makes me feel warm, I remember thinking how looking at pictures with bright colors made me feel quite happy, along with a slight sedation and heightening of the senses.

I am not familiar with N. nucifera, but it looks like quite a great nutritional and medicinal plant! The whole plant can be eaten, roots, leaves flowers, seeds. People use it in cooking.

Seems it has been studied a bit.

https://www.ejmr.org/ahead-print/NUTRITIONAL%20AND%20THERAPEUTIC%20IMPORTANCE%20OF%20NELUMBO%20NUCIFERA%20(SACRED%20LOTUS).pdf

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I made a first attempt with the lotus last night...rather noticeable, but I think I’ll make a point of experimenting on an emptier stomach.

quick recap of last night: chopped up ~2 grams, which I soaked in the fire mix for roughy an hour, then added it to the cider in an 8oz ball jar. Soaked for another hour, shaking periodically, then drank ~half the jar (4oz). Over the next 2 hours, became pleasantly drifty/sleepy - so much so that I went to bed without my usual OTC meds. Had *very* vivid, long, and colorful dream (interesting content, too) - and then woke up after three hours (3AM), stayed awake another two hours before I could get back to sleep. Overall pleasant, but wonder if the dreams have a theme (Last night’s seemed familiar).... rate it a success.

A note of the “fire cider”: I grow hot peppers (for medicine, not for the heat), and I me things with them. “Fire cider” per se is a base made of ACV, hot peppers, garlic, turmeric, ginger, onion, wasabi, etc. fermented over time. The base is added to Apple cider and drunk on the regular for health reasons, recipes can be found online (I made my own). I currently have some 400 60ml bottles of the stuff, so I get to play with it as I like. Whatever effect the acidic element adds to the blue lotus, I’d say it worked.

Did an inventory, I have right at 2.5 ounces of the lotus flowers, so this set of experiments can continue for a bit. Promising.
Tonight, though, I’m just going to go to sleep...but I may have to start up my dream journal again.

Thank you, @treesaver, for your guidance!

 

[treesaver]

I may have to start up my dream journal again.
Thank you, @treesaver, for your guidance!

As soon as I started to experiment with dreams herbs, I started journaling dreams again too. I am so glad it worked for you! Yeah, the lotus is relaxing, but as with any other dream herb that I have found, it doesn't keep you asleep. The part that makes the dreams vivid, also kind of wakes up the mind to be able to participate in that vision in a way, so it's not the most restful sleep. It's a good idea to take a break from psychoactive herbs anyhow, better results. May I ask what method and dosage you used when it was not effective? Did you eat the plant material this time? What else was different about these times you tried it? I am always interested in the content of dreams, but that's another matter.

That fire cider sounds amazing! I would love to know your recipe. It would probably do wonders for my sinus issues from what I know of the ingredients.

Thanks for sharing your experience and cheers on the success!

 

[ClearBlueLou]

Before following your advice, I was grinding it up and filling my VapCap. Effects were below subtle when heating to the click, more pronounced when I heated another two seconds. Not been doing it regularly, and only enough to feel some lightness/euphoria.

Even so, vaping it had the same impact on my dreams - quite vIbrant, easy to remember, easy to keep the thread of the dream while it was running. I certainly agree, breaks must be taken between visionary substances: after long, it’s part of my nature. The one exception being cannabis. Beside and beyond all other effects, it is the one thing that allows my aging body to stop hurting. Sadly, it’s virtual impossible to get these last six+ months, so I hurt all the time, despite NSAIDs and such; especially difficult, as my work requires stressful and prolonged use of my hands. With cannabis, good sleep, and proper nutrition it‘s not really an issue. Without is a completely different story. Have had none in months, which is actually what spurred me toward the lotus in hopes of some ease.

I appreciate all your comments and suggestions!

Regarding my fire cider recipe, since I moved to my present location, I’ve been unable to make any more, and have no idea where my notes and recipes are. What I did was simply google it, and made a special batch, modifying it to fit in with my usual product profile. Here is a sample recipe I picked up off Mother Earth News just now: https://www.motherearthnews.com/natural-foods/homemade-fire-cider-zm0z20onzbut.... The main difference from this (and there are many versions) is that I was already working with hot peppers, making sauces, relishes, etc, and had the bright idea to add items specific to the recipe to my basic hot sauce recipe - specifically wasabi instead of the horseradish called for, added turmeric root, and no honey. As I was already familiar with my materials, I used more of everything than the recipe calls for - and boosted the quantities of the new ingredients to match the pounds of onion, garlic, ginger, I was already using. Also, I used mostly a blend of different fresh hot peppers rather than the cayenne called for. I’ve always been after the flavors more than the heat, so this is (was) my normal practice. All ingredients I used were fresh and whole, except for the wasabi powder - I even made the ACV from scratch, all organic. Before sealing the bucket, I did chop all the peppers, the onions, the garlic, the turmeric, the ginger. Let it brew from winter to summer (six months by the calendar), extracted enough liquid to fill my little airplane bottles, added the wasabi to half the batch (some of my people are allergic to it), bottled and sealed it, and made a thick sauce out of the rest - also bottled and sealed.

Rather than go through all that, anyone should be able to make a test batch using the recipe from CMEN, or any of theothers out there, from which you can have enough to try out, and see how adventurous they feel like being. I love it: my mixture makes a fine ‘hot’ cider with one little bottle to a half gallon off apple juice. Adding “Emergen-C” vitamin C powder to it adds a lovely tang and boosts its health-supporting properties. I like to drink 4-6 Oz of the combined base & juice every day. I find it delicious and invigorating - more spicy than actually hot. Anyway, once I’m out of here (someday) I’ll be able to start up again, and find my recipes; at that point, I may be able to be more detailed, specific about how I do it.

hope that’s enough to get you started...oh, a note on what peppers I actually used: it was roughly a pound each of red jalapeño,, cubanelle, Korean, long hots, Serrano, with say a half-dozen habaneros and a half-pound of tiny Thais. Also one ghost pepper grown by a friend.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

FOLLOW-UP on the fire cider: this s got me back to pouring through recipes that are virtually identical...but it’s also taught me some new stuff.... one thing, you should definitely mix peppers; two, if you’re going to add honey (I havnt yet, but might) use LOCAL honey; three: black pepper serves a role; herbs fill a role: parsley, sage, and rosemary specifically; grapefruit or chopped lemon is a common addition; spices such as cinnamon and clove can be added, some add mint as well.

Further: dice or mince ingredients - this not only reduces particle size for extraction, but makes it easier to use a stick blender to further reduce the size of the extractable bits. With this approach, let the container (quart ball jar) soak the ingredients for at least a month, and after blending allow at least one more month of extraction (MINIMUM - the more lengthy the extraction, the more effective the product). As always, the process is more important than the particular ingredients in particular, I recommend increasing quantities vs the volume of vinegar, given that you should use enough vinegar to immerse the ingredients.

if you don’t have a stick blender...why not? They’re wonderful.

once you’ve assembled your jar of ingredients, shake it daily. There is no upper ceiling for steeping the brew...the longer, the better - and the blending of the soaked bits is a good indicator for the midpoint. The whole matter is straightforward, and there’s literally no downside to taking your time.

many people drink it straight, I prefer to take it in apple cider or apple juice.
Okay...that’s virtually everything I know on the topic: the rest is up to you.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

Pardon me for my walls-o-text...just an old man with no one to talk to about things like this