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Safety Puffco Plus

Discussion in 'Vapes and Related Equipment Safety' started by herbivore21, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    I got my hands on a Puffco Plus some time back and have enjoyed the tasty bowl and wanted to know more about what it is made out of under the ceramic. Hell, that info might help us figure out how to dial it in for TCR mod compatibility :D

    @Vinson Puffco: Thank you for being a member of our community so that we can ask you questions on this topic and others relating to your products!

    I would like to ask a few general materials questions:

    1. Assuming that a wire around the ceramic dish heats the dish, which metal is the wire made out of?

    2. Can you outline which materials are used inside the product? Please list all of them, even if they are minor; including any gaskets, coil wire as above, etc. Please let us know of any materials that are used under the ceramic dish.

    3. Have you ever known of anybody to successfully use the Puffco + 510 attachment with a temperature control mod? What were the settings that worked if so? I find that in the stock configuration, the latter hits in the bowl taste bad as opposed to my SiC and Sapphire enails and was hoping I might improve my 'end of bowl' experience with temp control.

    4. Is there any quick way to truly get the dish clean (ie: white like brand new) after use?

    I would greatly appreciate your time to help us get to know our Puffco + better, thank you :biggrin:
     
    GreenHopper and Vinson Puffco like this.
  2. Vinson Puffco

    Vinson Puffco Puffco Vince Manufacturer

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    1+2.)

    EXTERIOR MATERIAL: Plated Brass

    DEVICE DIMENSIONS: 14mm X 131mm

    CHAMBER DIMENSIONS: 14mm X 25mm

    BATTERY DIMENSIONS: 14mm X 75mm

    BATTERY: Lithium-ion battery fully recharges in about 35 minutes with included Super Charger.

    520mAh

    35 Watt Max (Sub-Ohm)

    HEATING ELEMENT: Ceramic

    APPROXIMATE TEMPERATURE SETTINGS: Green - 580 ° / Blue - 650 ° / White - 720 °

    SUPER CHARGER: Input: DC5V/1000mA

    Output: DC4.2V/1000mA

    MATERIALS: Chamber is made entirely of ceramic. Air path is free of all plastics and glues. Dart comprises of ceramic and food safe silicone.

    3.)

    While the Plus’ chamber is 510-threaded, we do not recommend pairing it with non-Plus batteries, as this may compromise the lifespan of both the battery and chamber. You should not use the Plus atomizer with any other batteries.

    4.)


    Not to worry, I can assure you that the Plus chamber will function as intended. It is normal for the bottom of the Plus chamber to blacken or darken over time, just as a ceramic nail typically would after some use. This should not in any way affect the overall performance of the chamber itself. After some time it can be pretty arduous to keep the whole internal part of the battery white for the duration of use.

    2.)

    All Puffco products are intended for use with essential oils. Dry herbs can damage the chamber and we highly advise against it. A variety of substances and consistencies can be used in the Puffco. We also advise against liquids. Unused liquids in the chamber can splash or spill after use.
    Essentially the harder the product the better. Higher viscosity material has been known to clog most devices on the market.

    HAPY TO PROVIDE ANY INSIGHT I CAN!!! <3
     
  3. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Excellent information! Thank you so much for your detailed reply!

    To clarify on the ceramic element, is this a sealed heater with all wires cast inside the ceramic, are any wires etc found underneath the ceramic dish at all? If so, what are they made out of (please identify the wire material itself as well as any insulation). Please also explicate if you do not use wires and achieve electrical connectivity via other means.

    Thanks for identifying that the material at the top of the dart which holds it in place is silicone, I had wondered what this was! :D
     
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  4. Vinson Puffco

    Vinson Puffco Puffco Vince Manufacturer

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    The ceramic element is a sealed heater with zero wires cast inside the ceramic chamber for the Puffco Plus. No Coils, No Glues, No Wires (in the chamber) No Compromises.
     
  5. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Wonderful news man! are there wires below the chamber, could these be inundated with iso if somebody attempted to iso wash the puffco +? If so, are these wires insulated or not and what materials are the wires made from? Are these compatible with isopropanol?
     
  6. Vinson Puffco

    Vinson Puffco Puffco Vince Manufacturer

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    I'm sorry I totally answered the previous question incorrectly before. There are lead wires below the ceramic chamber that encases the metal that powers the ceramic. Isopropanol should be only used briefly on the exterior of the inside of the ceramic portion of the chamber. We would not suggest using any liquids inside the Puffco +, but the lead wires are outside the chamber. If all is working correctly, oil should never reach to lead wires.

    The insulation wouldn't be able and to handle the high temp.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2017
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  7. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Thank you for being so forthcoming about this original mistake in explanation. No problem at all :peace: All that I expect is that we correct ourselves if we make mistakes - like you have.

    To clarify what you have said here, when you use the term 'lead', do you mean this word as a synonym to cable, or do you mean it to describe the chemical element 'lead'? This is an important distinction.
     
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  8. Vinson Puffco

    Vinson Puffco Puffco Vince Manufacturer

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    Synonym to the cable, correct.
     
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  9. nosmoking

    nosmoking Member

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    While I appreciate the involvement from @Vinson Puffco I can't help but feel your avoiding providing certain answers or perhaps your just not being thorough enough for me anyway in the answers you do provide as there is more to the heating chamber than you have mentioned above. I have asked your support department the following questions and I was told you could not answer them because the answers are trade secrets. I disagree as anyone can identify the construction of the Puffco Plus if they want at the cost of only $25 ( the price of one of your atty's) so let us get past the concern of trade secrets please and answer the following questions which will shed some light on the design as well as the fact that there is more material in that chamber that you have not mentioned.

    1. What is the mesh made of that wraps the ceramic chamber?
    2. How is the floor sealed to the walls? With what material?
    3. What material is the clear gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?
    4. What is the wire made of?
    5. Does the wire that goes from the bottom of the cup to the side wall create heat at the sidewalls or is it a ground wire?
    6. What material is the red gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?

    Basically the Puffco Plus chamber (and please do correct me when/where I am wrong @Vinson Puffco ) is press fitted together to avoid the use of fasteners and/or glue. On the top of the Puffco Plus atomizer is a stainless steel ring (stamped with the words Puffco) that is press fitted into the stainless steel chamber housing. Below this is the ceramic cup which is lined along it's exterior walls only with a mesh (appears to be SS). There is no mesh along the floor or at the lower portion of the walls. There is a wire that goes from the mesh to the bottom of the cup floor. There is then another wire that goes from the bottom of the cup floor to the brass pin in the bottom of the chamber. The brass pin is held in place by a red gasket. Below the ceramic cup is a piece of clear gasket. I am not sure but this gasket may be right up against the hot floor of the ceramic cup or perhaps they don't touch at all. Some insight on this would be nice.

    The clear gasket and how the cup is sealed are the only two real safety concerns I have for this pen. They may be nothing to be concerned about, however knowing how and what material is used could help to eliminate this concern completely.

    Now with all of that said, I must say I do like the Puffco Plus the most out of all the concentrate pens out there on the market currently. I think a slightly larger cup design with almost double the floor space and adjustable air flow would improve the device greatly, however it is doing a great service to my concentrates as it is currently. I use the Puffco Plus on a iLeaf Pico Mega 80w TC battery as well as a Mini Evic 2 60w TC battery. I prefer the Mini Evic as of late. I have both set to TC NI mode with 12-14 watts at 320-360 temp. I typically keep the temp at the lower end of this range and that works very well for my crumbles, rosins and shatters. I load about a small-moderate dab worth at a time which provides about 4-5 hits. The only time I taste something other than my delicious concentrates is once the floor is not completely covered (albeit the taste does degrade each hit). This lets me know there is only a little reclaim left in the cup and its time to swipe it clean. Swiping clean every session or two may make for a lot of used q-tips, however it does a great service to keeping the atomizer from building up reclaim and preventing it from leaking into the intake holes which allow it to build up in the mesh and then eventually down below the heater.

    Here is a picture of a Puffco Plus atomizer I disassembled. It would be awesome if these things were made to be rebuildable.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    I did ask specifically that all gaskets should be clearly identified and the materials outlined. This is because these parts tend to be made of polymers that may not be able to stand up to the temps in some vaporizers. Of course, these gaskets could be used in a way that is safe in the Puffco+ and so we should wait to hear a response from @Vinson Puffco

    The vendor may have unintentionally missed the above questions in my posts (which were quite long after all). Let's give @Vinson Puffco the benefit of the doubt this time, he was forthcoming and honest enough to correct himself before and I am sure he will happily correct where necessary again. He's been very cooperative here.

    In the not too distant future, this section is going to get revamped with guidelines and requirements from vendors and a more methodical safety review of vapes. The shape that this process will take will be outlined as it is developed with the powers that be around here :)

    If we could get responses to the following questions, that would be greatly appreciated @Vinson Puffco (I thank nosmoking for the questions):

    1. What is the mesh made of that wraps the ceramic chamber?
    2. How is the floor sealed to the walls? With what material?
    3. What material is the clear gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?
    4. What is the wire made of?
    5. Does the wire that goes from the bottom of the cup to the side wall create heat at the sidewalls or is it a ground wire?
    6. What material is the red gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?

    @Vinson Puffco if we can please get detailed responses to these questions, this would go a long way to giving customers peace of mind. I have to say, I am personally a little hesitant to use my own Puffco+ until I know more about these gaskets/mesh in particular. :peace: Of course, it may all be no problem at all so let's wait to hear from Vinson.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  11. nosmoking

    nosmoking Member

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    Hopefully my post did not seem to be aggressive. I honestly believe Puffco does deserve the benefit of the doubt as I know there was a lot of thought put into this design. It wasn't just thrown together overnight. I am eagerly waiting for their responses.
     
  12. Vinson Puffco

    Vinson Puffco Puffco Vince Manufacturer

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    Thanks, @nonsmoking and no worries I'm more than glad to help with these answers for you. Sorry for the delay. Although I don't usually come across these type of fantastic questions, I want to take my time in order to get you the accurate answers you need.




    1. What is the mesh made of that wraps the ceramic chamber?


    We use a
    Ni Mesh. This is the industry standard.



    2. How is the floor sealed to the walls? With what material?



    The chamber is held in place by the securing ring and does not use any glues to keep it in place.




    3. What material is the clear gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?



    It's food grade, high temp Silicone which is rated for around 500 degrees Fahrenheit but does not come in direct contact with the bowl or heating element.


    4. What is the wire made of?


    The lead wires, for the Plus are made of nickel.


    5. Does the wire that goes from the bottom of the cup to the side wall create heat at the sidewalls or is it a ground wire?


    It's a ground wire.



    6. What material is the red gasket/ring below the ceramic chamber? What temp is it rated too?




    The red gasket/ring is also food grade, high temp silicone.
     
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  13. nosmoking

    nosmoking Member

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    Thanks a lot for all the answers to my questions. No wonder it works so well in TC NI mode! You have also helped me eliminate the one concern I had which is if the clear silicone gasket was touching the cup or not.

    So the mesh is currently being used as a heat insulator it sounds like. I was thinking it could also be used to heat the walls as well, however if the crucible you provide in your atomizer is a one piece deal then the heat would travel/conduct to the walls as well anyway. At least that is how the Source Terra crucible works.

    My #2 question was in reference to this point above actually and not to the actual chamber. Basically I was wondering if the ceramic crucible cup is actually one piece or if it is a two piece cup assembled from a flat circular piece sealed to a cylindrical piece. If it is a two piece then I am curious as to how you seal it?

    Anyway you got us answers for all my questions and I really appreciate that. I will continue to support and recommend your product as I hope others here will.
     
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  14. herbivore21

    herbivore21 The Asylum's Scientist and Safety Advisor

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    Not at all, my friend. Thankyou for being so polite and civil in this thread to make this post that I have quoted here just the same. I wanted to take a moment to appreciate this because this is exactly the kind of attitude that should be cultivated in this section. :biggrin: :peace:

    Thank you so much for being our first participant here man. You've done a great job of answering those questions above :beer-toast1: It dawns on me that in future, I'll include specific questions in my posts here in bold so that they stand out more. I am sure that the number of words I had on either side of my question about gaskets led to your missing out on noticing it lol. I have the same challenge sometimes in my scientific work and often find myself re-reading research reports just in case I've missed something in all those words :rofl:

    I am interested in the Silicone positioning with respect to the heat generated. In my experience, it is not uncommon in the vape industry to see silicone in some pretty questionable places (this is not to say that you guys have done so!). I must say, I've never smelt any over-heated silicone smell (this smell is very familiar to me).

    Did you guys do any kind of testing to determine that the silicone o-rings are not deforming/offgassing over time? If so, what was your testing method?

    It seems like you have indeed pressure fitted the entire unit together which is great to hear. :biggrin:

    As for nickel, I thought I'd review some properties here for the benefit of the readers (I am operating on the assumption that you guys use pure nickel, not an alloy - please clarify if I am wrong on this one):

    Nickel is a corrosion resistant metal which melts at 2651f. This is a very high melting point and as such, there is high temp heat tolerance (for vaporization purposes) before deformation.

    Nickel is toxic if it is volatilized and inhaled, so the high temps required to volatilize nickel are fortunate for our purposes. I cannot imagine thousands of degrees being achieved for long in a Puffco+ unless the user is going overboard with heat cleaning for a very, very long time! I'd also be surprised if heat excessive enough to cause volatilization of the nickel in the Puffco+ could be achieved before the battery ran out of juice, even in some of the mods out there let alone the considerably lower capacity of the stock Puffco+ battery.

    In my view; nickel, used as described above, can be considered safe.

    So far, things are looking good for the Puffco+ in terms of safety! With some responses on the testing/safety of the silicone gaskets, I think we can rest assured of the safety of this unit!

    I want to thank @Vinson Puffco and @nosmoking again for their contributions and participation here so far. We need vendors and patients to make this section happen, after all! :biggrin: