Meds Vape Cartridges

[momofthegoons]

We've talked about the issue of vape cartridge safety and all of the health issues that arose from the counterfeit and untested cartridges. But we haven't discussed cartridges that are tested as safe, but have misleading labeling or packaging. This thread is for that discussion. What are you really getting in those cartridges that you are buying?

CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT FILED AGAINST LIVE RESIN VAPE CARTRIDGE MANUFACTURER

As the cannabis market matures, we see more lawsuits based on fraud, including claims made on packaging and marketing materials. A recent class-action complaint filed in San Francisco County Superior Court alleges that Raw Garden™ products packaged as “refined Live Resin vape pens” do not contain Live Resin. Instead they are allegedly made with distillate and reintroduced terpenes.
We’ll have to wait and see what happens with this complaint. It is important to watch as many industry terms have been loosely defined while others are well known and settled. When packaging your cannabis product, it’s crucial that you accurately describe your product. Adding a disclaimer like “refined” is tricky. Your packaging may still be considered misleading.

Quotes from the complaint are posted in italics.

The Complaint

Raw Garden, a DBA for Central Coast Agriculture LLC, has well-loved cannabis vape pens and a strong following. The following included the plaintiff in the complaint. The plaintiff claims that he purchased the Raw Garden vape cartridge and paid a premium price for the products because he believed them to contain Live Resin. The complaint states the plaintiff would not have purchased the product if he knew it was made with distillates and reintroduced terpenes.

The complaint alleges that Raw Garden creates the vape pen cartridges by making Live Resin, distilling it, and adding terpenes back into this distillate. The company then packages and sells the resulting liquid as a “refined” Live Resin vape cartridge according to the complaint. The complaint continues to allege that the liquid used in Raw Garden’s “Live Resin” cartridge is not Live Resin because it has been distilled and despite the re-addition of terpenes, it does not contain all the organic compounds that are in a true Live Resin.

Distillates vs. Live Resin: What’s the difference?

Dabconnection.com explains, distillates focus on retaining the strength and purity of cannabis concentrate. Taste and flavor are not a priority. The distillation extraction process requires a solvent such as CO2, butane or ethanol, pressure, steam, and heat.

Cannabis is harvested, dried, and cured. A very cold solvent is run through room temperature cannabis. The cannabis is soaked in the solvent, then broken up while keeping the solvent extremely cold. The mixture is then filtered to remove the plant, heated to remove the solvent and distilled to create a pure oil. Terpenes, phytonutrients, and other chemicals are destroyed or burned off by the process.

It’s a relatively new technique, developed in 2013. Freshly harvested cannabis is cryogenically frozen, retaining its terpene profile, original flavor, and fragrance throughout the extraction process and into the final product. It is extracted with butane, and then the butane is purged with warm water (45°F max). The remainder of the butane is then purged using a vacuum chamber. This process results in a preserved terpene profile.

Conclusion

If the complaint is correct and the company creates a Live Resin and distills it, do you think “refined Live Resin” is an accurate product description? With July’s cannabis sales in California’s regulated market hitting $348 million, it’s clear the industry has matured. Business owners need to be extremely careful with packaging, ensuring they can back up all claims in a court of law.


Sources

“Packaging Scrutiny - Class Action Complaint Filed against Live Resin Vape Cartridge Manufacturer.” Inkbrite, 12 Aug. 2020, inkbrite.com/packaging-gone-wrong-class-action-complaint-filed-against-raw-garden-refined-live-resin/.

 

[Basement Farmer]

It's probably semantics to most people and with so much irregularity and lack of any real clear definition of what makes a product the product it is by name, a class action lawsuit seems extreme.

Especially when it is against a company regarding product that is generally held in high regard....not that I'm familiar with either. Creating a hostile market is no way to see responsible corporations succeed. Especially in such a financially dicey industry like legal cannabis.

I haven't read into the 'damages' but personally I would think that changing the product name would be / should be good enough for me.

 

[bulllee]

Truth on product labels, and advertising is nothing new. The food industry is still in turmoil over easy to read and understand food labels. There is a lot of big money fighting the FDA on labeling. These jokers knew exactly what they were selling and they got caught. Distillate is way cheaper than Live resin, so why not say it's live resin ? Another reason to just say no to cartridges !

 

[Basement Farmer]

Truth on product labels, and advertising is nothing new. The food industry is still in turmoil over easy to read and understand food labels. There is a lot of big money fighting the FDA on labeling. These jokers knew exactly what they were selling and they got caught. Distillate is way cheaper than Live resin, so why not say it's live resin ? Another reason to just say no to cartridges !

Most likely. Like they were making a comparable synthesized but less costly to produce product, but marketing it as the more desirable OG product. Like Maple Syrup...They should have called it "I Can't Believe It's Not Real Live Resin"

There's always the chance that the fake stuff is as good or possibly even superior than the real thing. Too bad they don't attempt to market it on its own merit.

I offer to do side by side comparisons in the name of science if anyone wants to start a crowdsource fund on my behalf.

 

[momofthegoons]

In the two years since this thread was last posted in.... things have changed dramatically with vape cartridges. For one, they are tested. So no weird ingredients or molds and pesticides. And the labeling (at least here in Michigan) tells you what it is, your percentages and if any additional terpenes have been added. I try to get live resin as a rule, since the effects of the other oil cartridges can be one dimensional. But this go round, tried an oil cartridge from Select. It does have some added terpenes which add a real nice flavor to it. Jury is out on whether the high from it is one dimensional or not. But so far it seems to be really nice.

 

[momofthegoons]

Well shit.....

Cannabis Cartridges: Inside Out​

What’s inside your vape pen? More importantly, what are you inhaling?

Cannabis vape pens have become a staple consumption method for the industry at large. Vapes are popular because they offer a convenient, discrete form of cannabis consumption. However, a brief period of controversy hit in 2019 when products from the illicit market led to illness and, in some cases, fatality. The CDC called it EVALI, or the “e-cigarette, or vaping, product use associated lung injury.” After Leafly identified vitamin E acetate as the cause of these adverse reactions, reports of vape-related illness continued to decline. Still, the health scare highlighted the need to understand what substances are within cannabis cartridges.

The traditional cannabis market regulates through required lab testing, which tells retailers and consumers exactly what is in the product. While this is beneficial to everyone involved, the average consumer still doesn’t have a wide-lens picture of what is actually going into their bodies. After all, the chemistry of these compounds changes when heat is applied.

I spoke with Dr. Markus Roggen of Delic Labs, whose vape and smoke research involves a smoking machine that simulates how a person would inhale. The inhalation is captured and the contents are analyzed. Spoiler alert: toxic compounds are found.

What’s Inside Cartridges?​

The short answer is cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids, and potentially some cutting agents.

Cannabinoids are unique compounds found in the cannabis plant that interact with the endocannabinoid system. The more infamous of these compounds include THC and CBD. Synthetic cannabinoids will be distinguishable on a lab test. However, those who consume products that haven’t been processed by the standards of the traditional market are at risk of inhaling these potentially unsafe compounds that are intended to mimic cannabinoids.

Terpenes are aroma and flavor compounds found in plants. Some commonly known terpenes are myrcene, limonene, and linalool. The terpenes present in your vape cartridge are either cannabis-derived, plant or fruit-derived, or synthetic. Differentiation on the label isn’t currently required, but most products with cannabis-derived terpenes will declare as such. Cartridges with naturally present cannabis-derived terpenes may be labeled HTFSE (High-terpene full-spectrum extracts).


Flavonoids are phytonutrients, which are pharmacologically active compounds that primarily provide non-green color pigmentation to plants. Cannaflavins are flavonoids specific to cannabis.

Extraction Methods and Products​

Hydrocarbon extraction is a solvent-based method that uses either butane or a butane/propane blend, also commonly referred to as butane hash oil (BHO). While not all BHO is full-spectrum, this method is used to create full-spectrum extracts which contain all of the naturally present cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids, and fatty acids, without waxes, lipids, and fats. When full-spectrum extract is made from cured flowers, it will separate into two fractions based on the conditions. HTFSE are characterized by high concentrations in terpenes (13%-40%). These extracts are the perfect consistency for vaping without any additives and are becoming more commonly found in cartridges. High-cannabinoid full-spectrum extracts (HCFSE) are not typically used in cartridges because they are high in THCA and tend to materialize as a sugar or diamond consistency.

Supercritical C02 extraction is a solvent-based method that involves controlled temperature and pressure to create phase changes in C02. This method maintains the integrity of terpenes and protects cannabinoids from decarboxylation while providing the opportunity to separate individual compounds throughout the extraction process.

Distillate is produced through a solventless extraction method. The final output consists of a concentration of a specific molecule (THC or CBD) that’s been isolated. By nature, distillate is flavorless and odorless, so terpenes are also commonly reintroduced to cartridges after the extraction process.

Live resin is a method in which the freshly harvested plant is frozen, skipping the drying and curing process. This typically retains more of the plant’s terpenes than any other extract method; however, they are not guaranteed to qualify as a HTFSE.

What To Look Out For?​

Contaminants such as pesticides are a clear red flag. Common cutting agents and additives like coconut oil (MCT), propylene glycol (PG), polyethylene glycol (PEG), vegetable glycerin (VG), and vitamin E acetate will appear on lab results and be disclosed on labels for products sold in the regulated market. Other extract modifiers include plant native terpene formulas that intend to alter the viscosity without compromising the flavor and aroma. While the plant terpenes used in these instances lack the aforementioned ingredients and are food grade and Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by the FDA, it’s important to note that this classification refers only to food, not inhalation products.

What’s Being Inhaled?​

Delic Labs’ data shows that puff by puff, THC concentrations are dependent upon consumption method, and there are obviously differences between vape products. The average inhalation contains 1 mg of THC per puff, though these levels tend downward throughout the lifecycle of the cartridge (which is the opposite of what the data reflected for the THC levels during the lifecycle of joint consumption.)

Thermal degradation is when the chemistry of compounds changes with increased temperature. This applies to all of the individual compounds included in the cartridge. Unfortunately, when heat (of a specific temperature) is applied, there are toxic compounds produced.

Cannabinoids and terpenes have similar degradation mechanisms. Validated by Roggen’s research, the increased voltage on vape cartridges produces more degradants (and dabbing produces the highest level). Toxic compounds present in both methods include methacrolein, benzene, and isoprene.


The impact of these chemicals on one’s system may vary from single exposure to long-term chronic exposure, but the reality is that humans haven’t been vaping cannabis for nearly as long as they have been smoking it. Researchers simply lack long enough data stretches to fully understand the impacts of vaping upon our health. Those who enjoy cannabis cartridges should make sure they stay informed about what’s inside their vape and understand they are a voluntarily active participant in a massive group study.

 

[CarolKing]

In WA state a couple years ago vape carts were banned temporarily when folks were getting lung injuries. Of course along with E cig vape pens.
All additives need to be labeled on your package of cannabis oil. where I live. No vitamin E acetates are added because they think that’s what was making people sick.
I had some connection so I was able to buy some THC carts during the ban. All is good now. I have a nice product that I always buy. The carts I buy are $36 and I get 10% off. They are 1gram.

 

[momofthegoons]

Legal Marijuana Access Tied To Lower Risk Of Lung Injuries From Contaminated Vapes, Study Indicates​

A new study adds to the body of research indicating that access to legal and regulated marijuana markets served a “protective” purpose for people who vaped cannabis during a 2019 outbreak of lung injuries related to contaminated products.

Researchers at Johns Hopkins, New York University and the American Heart Association reached that conclusion in a study published in the journal PLoS ONE this month. They analyzed the prevalence of marijuana vaping, cases of e-cigarette or vaping product-use-associated lung injury (EVALI) and cannabis laws in 13 states.

While more people reported vaping marijuana in states that have legalized for medical or recreational use, that prevalence didn’t translate into a greater percentage of EVALI case burdens compared to non-legal states, according to data from the 2019 Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

The research article—which looked at data from four prohibition states, seven medical cannabis states and two states that have legalized marijuana for adult-use—found that “state-level cannabis vaping prevalence was not positively associated with EVALI caseload, even after accounting for state cannabis policies.”

In fact, there was “an inverse association between state cannabis vaping prevalence and EVALI case burden.” That is, states that had higher levels of marijuana vaping, which tend to be the states that have some form of legal access, saw lower lung injury rates.

“These findings, therefore, suggest that there may not be a direct, simple link between a state’s cannabis vaping prevalence and EVALI cases, but rather the relationship is likely more nuanced, supporting the CDC’s hypothesis that the EVALI outbreak is likely reflective of access to informal sources of THC-containing e-liquids,” the study authors said.

“Although cannabis vaping prevalence was low in states with prohibitive cannabis laws, individuals from such states may more likely obtain cannabis from illegal sources, increasing their risk of using contaminated products and hence the higher prevalence of EVALI cases in such states,” it said.

In states that had legalized medical or recreational marijuana, meanwhile, people were “likely to obtain cannabis from legal sources, reducing the risk of contamination.” The research article supports findings from previous studies demonstrating that “the presence of legal markets for cannabis may have been protective against EVALI,” according to the authors of the new paper.

The EVALI crisis has dropped off significantly over the past three years as public education increased and regulators stepped up enforcement efforts against vaping manufacturers that included additives like vitamin-E-acetate into their THC cartridges that are believed to have caused the lung injuries.

However, the researchers said “continued surveillance of cannabis vaping is warranted,” and “efforts to discourage black-market sales of contaminated products should be pursued to prevent future outbreaks.”

Advocates have long maintained that cannabis legalization represents a key policy to mitigate the harms of illicit markets, and the new study seems to reinforce the public health benefits of regulations over prohibition.

“In conclusion, state-level cannabis vaping prevalence was not positively associated with EVALI prevalence,” the article says. “This suggests that the EVALI outbreak may have not necessarily been a simple reflection of state-level cannabis vaping prevalence but rather due to the use of contaminated or illicitly-sourced vaping products, which are more likely in states with restrictive cannabis laws.”

Relatedly, a study published in the journal Environmental Health Perspective last month determined that the lack of federal regulations, combined with a patchwork of state policies, “can confuse cannabis manufacturers and discourage compliance while subjecting cannabis users to a higher level of contaminant exposure in some jurisdictions.”

Another recent study that analyzed National Poison Data System (NPDS) reports found that marijuana legalization minimizes the risk of people buying and using synthetic cannabinoid products that can lead to hospitalizations or deaths.

 

[momofthegoons]

Just when we thought vape cartridges had gotten safe.... It's always the carrier or the added compounds that seem to be suspect. Why can't they just make these cartridges with pure rosin? If my caregiver can do it, so can they.

Cal NORML Warns of Potential THC-O Acetate Risk​

A study shows both THC-O and vitamin E acetate may convert into a dangerous lung toxin when they are heated in a vape pen.

New data shows a potential problem with vaping THC-O acetate, and the reasons are worthy of concern. The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) branch in California, Cal NORML, issued a warning on Jan. 9 about a study that shows a significant risk for people who vape products containing THC-O acetate.

First published in the Journal of Medical Toxicology on Dec. 12, 2022, a team of researchers led by Neal L. Benowitz discovered a link between THC-O acetate and significant danger to the lungs. THC-O acetate shares structural similarities with vitamin-E acetate—an additive that becomes dangerous to the lungs when converted by heat.

According to the California Department of Public Health, the 2019-20 outbreak of EVALI lung disease sickened and hospitalized 249 Californians—five of them fatally. On Nov. 15, 2019, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed that vitamin E acetate is the likely culprit for EVALI. Vitamin E acetate also produces carcinogens such as alkenes and benzene when heated.

When heated in a vape pen, both substances—vitamin E acetate and THC-O Acetate—produce ketene, a “highly potent lung toxicant.”

“We put out the press release specifically because of a study showing that vaporizing vitamin E acetate was similar to THC-O acetate,” Cal NORML Director Dale Gieringer told High Times.

“Apparently when heated up, it produces a serious lung toxin called ketene.”


As cannabis consumers, we often have to filter through anti-cannabis hysteria, but certain risks hold weight when products aren’t regulated properly. Usually vaping dangers arise when random thickeners and unvetted compounds are added.

Gieringer added, “We have a lot of concerns about some of these other new cannabinoids that are being synthesized from hemp, which are brand new and never been tested in human subjects before. Some of them are advertised as being way more potent than THC. THC-O acetate is being advertised as three times more potent than delta-9. THCPis being advertised as having 30 times the binding power to receptors as THC. That kind of reaction sets off a lot of concerns with us.

“These compounds have never been found in nature before—being made by fairly amateurish underground hemp chemists—raise a lot of concern.”

Gieringer added that delta-8 THC isn’t his primary concern, given there is slightly more known about the compound, but it’s contaminants and other new cannabinoids he’s most worried about, mostly due to the unknowns: THCP, THCjd. THC-H, THC-B, HHC, and Delta-10 THC.

Cal NORML reports that the sale of psychoactive hemp derivatives was recently deemed legal under federal law by a Ninth Circuit Court decision (AK Futures v. Boyd Street Distro). That’s up for debate though, given that synthetic cannabinoids can be considered illegal under the Federal Analogue Act.

Under the 2018 federal Farm Bill, cannabis with less that 0.3% THC is legal to grow, and its products can be sold nationally, but the THC often exceeds the limit regardless.

California’s industrial hemp law, which is overseen by the California Department of Public Health (CDPH), currently disallows the sale of hemp products with active cannabinoids other than CBD.

THC-O acetate begins as hemp-derived CBD and goes through a chemical process. Going beyond how cannabinoids like delta-8 THC are processed from CBD, acetic anhydride is added to the mixture, making it an acetate.

THC-O is believed to be three times as potent as delta-9 THC—the naturally occurring cannabinoid most of us are used to.


“Cal NORML strongly advises consumers to avoid hemp products with psychoactive cannabinoids, especially novel ones stronger than THC, whose safety is particularly suspect. CBD products may be safely obtained from state-registered industrial hemp product manufacturers, whose products must be tested for safety and cannabinoid content,” the release reads. “Under state law, hemp products should have a batch number and a label, website, QR code or barcode linking to the laboratory test results that state the levels of cannabinoids, total THC, and presence of contaminants, as well as the address and phone number of the manufacturer. Violations can be reported to CDPH.

Cal NORML adds that the less common cannabinoids that are deemed safe for human use are CBN, CBG, CBC, THCV, THC-A, CBD-A, and Delta-8 THC.

 

[CarolKing]

I’ve tried this brand out before. Love the name. Been trying to find the orange creansicle - found it today and 20% off.

It has such a delicate orange creamy flavor. Some of the orange flavored cartridges have a terrible harsh orange taste.

 

[CarolKing]

I am upset with my local weed store that I’ve been going to for at least 7 yrs. I had left something in the Fuck You thread originally.

It’s true I’ve always had good service because I haven’t had any trouble. .
They get new employees off and on over the years. I had a problem with an unused cartridge that was leaking when I opened it. When I bought the cartridge I bought another one as well. I opened up the first one no problems after a few days I opened the other cart, it was leaking from the bottom. I was unable to use it so the next day I brought it back. Since it was past the 72 hours to bring the cart back I was too late by a day. Of course the manager wasn’t in. I went in the next day. The manager wasn’t there. No suggestions from the young budtenders what I was supposed to do. No call to the manager or anything.

I have started going to another bud store to buy my cartridges or anything else I might decide to buy. I talked with the budtender there, I didn’t say where I had gone previously. They don’t even have a time limit if you have a problem with the cartridges. As long as there’s half left, if there’s an issue. They just shook their heads. I need to drive a couple extra miles but they sell the brand of product I use. Not sure if I will try to pursue reimbursement from the manager at my old weed store? I might so she knows she lost a valued customer that spends a good amount of money at their store.

So buyer beware with cartridges as to the policy of your weed store. For the most part the leaking is from the manufacturer or the producer, whoever fills the oil in the cartridges. It could be overfilled or not secured on the bottom. Mine wasn’t sucure from the bottom. Carts are expensive. I’m out $34.

A good manager would want to know about this. They would make sure I was happy because it’s not worth the loss. These bud shops have young people working possibly their first job. They make customer service mistakes, I get that. This could be a new manager, I don’t know. Ive never known who the manager was other than the first couple years. That’s another thing maybe the manager needs to introduce themselves to the customers.

Bud shops are a dime a dozen where I live. So I will move on for now. I’m not begging to get my money back! I hope I don’t sound like a whiner.
Anyways the new budstore is cheaper by a $2 per cart. On Sundays over 55 yrs old get 10% off as well!

 

[Tincandtoke]

I am upset with my local weed store that I’ve been going to for at least 7 yrs. I had left something in the Fuck You thread originally. It’s true I’ve always had good service because I haven’t had any trouble. . They get new employees off and on over the years. I had a problem with an unused cartridge that was leaking when I opened it. When I bought the cartridge I bought another one as well. I opened up the first one no problems after a few days I opened the other cart, it was leaking from the bottom. I was unable to use it so the next day I brought it back. Since it was past the 72 hours to bring the cart back I was too late by a day. Of course the manager wasn’t in. I went in the next day. The manager wasn’t there. No suggestions from the young budtenders what I was supposed to do. No call to the manager or anything.

I have started going to another bud store to buy my cartridges or anything else I might decide to buy. I talked with the budtender there, I didn’t say where I had gone previously. They don’t even have a time limit if you have a problem with the cartridges. As long as there’s half left, if there’s an issue. They just shook their heads. I need to drive a couple extra miles but they sell the brand of product I use. Not sure if I will try to pursue reimbursement from the manager at my old weed store? I might so she knows she lost a valued customer that spends a good amount of money at their store.

So buyer beware with cartridges as to the policy of your weed store. For the most part the leaking is from the manufacturer or the producer, whoever fills the oil in the cartridges. It could be overfilled or not secured on the bottom. Mine wasn’t sucure from the bottom. Carts are expensive. I’m out $34.

A good manager would want to know about this. They would make sure I was happy because it’s not worth the loss. These bud shops have young people working possibly their first job. They make customer service mistakes, I get that. This could be a new manager, I don’t know. Ive never known who the manager was other than the first couple years. That’s another thing maybe the manager needs to introduce themselves to the customers.

Bud shops are a dime a dozen where I live. So I will move on for now. I’m not begging to get my money back! I hope I don’t sound like a whiner.
Anyways the new budstore is cheaper by a $2 per cart. On Sundays over 55 yrs old get 10% off as well!

If you trust the oil is not contaminated then moving it to a working cart would be a solution
Carts are easy to open and warming them prior to opening will make the oil flow easier

 

[CarolKing]

I’ve tried screwing the top off. I can’t do it. I’m sure some of you could.

 

[Tincandtoke]

I’ve tried screwing the top off. I can’t do it. I’m sure some of you could.

What kind of cart are you using?


Carts into a ziploc into a bowl of boiled water for several cycles
Change the water after a minute
5-10 cycles
Wrap the body of the cart with several layers of tape
Use 2 pairs of pliers, one to hold the body and one to twist the mouthpiece