Madri-Gal
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry for your loss. What a terrible time for you. I'm hoping you are doing well, and find comfort in your friends at VA.
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Meds Depression
- Thread starter Schnitzel777
- Start date
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- Tags
- depression
Sorry to hear that, @Madri-Gal. You might have had a different history. Still remember that first sunny mood six weeks in. The first in years.
Enjoying senescence more than expected. So much like adolescence. Prozac hasn't worked very well for the past decade at more than double the initial dose.. Compensate by reducing stress and expectations. Fortunately didn't take on too much, when it was working.
The grad school psychiatrist wanted to prescribe it immediately. It took her four years to convince me. She was a very good psychiatrist, saw her for years afterward. Maybe should have listened to her, might have finished grad school. All these years later, don't know whether sooner, later, or not at all would have been better. Just saying it is one of those truly difficult choices.
Enjoying senescence more than expected. So much like adolescence. Prozac hasn't worked very well for the past decade at more than double the initial dose.. Compensate by reducing stress and expectations. Fortunately didn't take on too much, when it was working.
The grad school psychiatrist wanted to prescribe it immediately. It took her four years to convince me. She was a very good psychiatrist, saw her for years afterward. Maybe should have listened to her, might have finished grad school. All these years later, don't know whether sooner, later, or not at all would have been better. Just saying it is one of those truly difficult choices.
Madri-Gal
Well-Known Member
It's a difficult choice, at a time when all choices are difficult. Madri-Gone was only 36, and missed his children's growing up. They never got to know him as adults. It's tragic, and sad, and I feel for anyone suffering from this terrible disease, and it's terrible cousin, anxiety.
I've been reading about the fascinating discoveries going on with the gut biome and it's relationship to mood and depression. Interesting stuff.
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arb
Semi shaved ape
I think depression is perfectly normal given the amount of pain one experiences as one lives.........life is pain no?
I get depressed and go into a downward spiral of stewing on negatives real or imagined.
I am getting a bit better at recognizing when I start and trying to train my brain to see the good or to know it will be ok.
The surest sign I am going into a clinical cycle is my non use of cannabis..........just sitting staring doing nothing is,for me totally fucked.
I get depressed and go into a downward spiral of stewing on negatives real or imagined.
I am getting a bit better at recognizing when I start and trying to train my brain to see the good or to know it will be ok.
The surest sign I am going into a clinical cycle is my non use of cannabis..........just sitting staring doing nothing is,for me totally fucked.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Oh dear...what a tragic story and I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes, after my rather terrifying experience....and now that I counted the years it was 24 years ago....with true clinical depression and the relief that I got from just being on anti's for six months.....I am an advocate. Not for pharma drugs in general, but I do advocate strongly against the stigma and shame of having a mental condition and having to take a drug for it and I advocate that people who really need it should take it. Screw what anybody else thinks.
Otherwise, we are just wasting our lives and, in truly desperate situations, we may even lose our life.
Thank you for being so open about this....hopefully someone else will see it and help them make the right decisions in their own lives.
Madri-Gal
Well-Known Member
I've never understood the stigma and shame aspect. I get that the person suffering thinks negatively of themselves, as that's a clear symptom of depression. I just don't get the negative judgement of other people when a person is suffering, or has suffered. We aren't supposed to talk about depession, anxiety, PTSD, child abuse, domestic abuse, suicide, rape, being swindled, being betrayed, or in any way of having been brutalized, traumatized or otherwise unfairly tapped by fate. But then, many people are mean or we wouldn't have many of these problems in the first place.
ataxian
In a BLACK HOLE!
U R LOVED so much!
Don’t worry be Happy !
Madri-Gal
Well-Known Member
ataxian
In a BLACK HOLE!
Curious - has anyone tried natural monoamine oxidase inhibitors for depression? Got some caapi extract recently, but haven't used it yet. Using MAOIs while on an SSRI is strongly contraindicated. It can cause a dangerous, even deadly increase in serotonin levels - serotonin syndrome. Still, planning to try a low dose only as needed when serotonin is low and stress is high (very easy to tell, IME - transform into an angry old man). Caapi is clearly effective - it's used traditionally in ayahuasca brews, where it's needed for DMT's psychedelic effects to be felt (only when ingested, not inhaled). Some ayahuascaleros also use caapi alone. In addition to symptomatic relief, it might help with SSRI withdrawal if carefully managed.
ataxian
In a BLACK HOLE!
I read and study to get over my depression .
CANNABIS my way of dealing!
Killick
Well-Known Member
I just found this thread while testing the new Linx vape - which I'm kinda pleased with btw.
With the recent trend of psychedelics being used to treat anxiety and depression has anyone tried microdosing with either/or LSD or mushrooms with success? A neighbor gifted a blotter from a chemist friend. I tried 1/4 of it, didn't seem to notice much, and lost the rest of the blotter. I also bought a mushroom grow kit, and still haven't quite gotten to the set up and grow part. It's an involved process that is likely much simpler than it looks....
Pros and or cons of either?
With the recent trend of psychedelics being used to treat anxiety and depression has anyone tried microdosing with either/or LSD or mushrooms with success? A neighbor gifted a blotter from a chemist friend. I tried 1/4 of it, didn't seem to notice much, and lost the rest of the blotter. I also bought a mushroom grow kit, and still haven't quite gotten to the set up and grow part. It's an involved process that is likely much simpler than it looks....
Pros and or cons of either?
Tried a couple of threshold doses of cactus syrup (mescaline). Initially, clear mood elevating and social effects. Coming down, effects were just the opposite - like withdrawing from Prozac. On top of a splitting headache. Guessing low serotonin. Mescaline binds serotonin receptors for 12 - 18 hours. Maybe long enough to cause a dip in endogenous serotonin. Need to work on that part. Caapi should help, if supplements fail.
Started an ethnobotanical thread for off-topic discussion of these plants and fungi.
Started an ethnobotanical thread for off-topic discussion of these plants and fungi.
felvapes
Well-Known Member
Depression and being depressed are different things
Ppl have bouts of being depressed
Depression is with you for life and you learn to live with and manage it
Having anxiety and depression together is another beast all together
Not everyone can use weed for anxiety as it sets some off on the paranoia
For me it helps depression and anxiety
Chuck in pain from a dead muscle in my back and PTSD and I'm rocking....
Weed helps with all these ailments
It helps with social anxiety
Everyone is different though
I find gym helps the dead muscle - for years I could do buggar all from the pain but as stated above by focussing on it and strengthening body around it helps with the pain
I also find that doctor depression drugs are fucked long term
The spikes etc are way worse
I tried them for some time with doctors and long term I am better without, weed helps me be more stable
I think for the most part I don't like the idea of doctors drugs for depression
However I do know that some people need them and go off the rails without them
If it works well for the individual then they are useful
I know some people who need their meds and feel they benefit from them
Generally I think there are other methods to learn to manage it though
For me they worked at first but long term it's no fix or help for me
I don't tell people my story often and only share bits and pieces here as I go but weed and in particular vaping over combustion really has been something that makes life more bearable
Good thread to find
Hope people are coping well :)
Ppl have bouts of being depressed
Depression is with you for life and you learn to live with and manage it
Having anxiety and depression together is another beast all together
Not everyone can use weed for anxiety as it sets some off on the paranoia
For me it helps depression and anxiety
Chuck in pain from a dead muscle in my back and PTSD and I'm rocking....
Weed helps with all these ailments
It helps with social anxiety
Everyone is different though
I find gym helps the dead muscle - for years I could do buggar all from the pain but as stated above by focussing on it and strengthening body around it helps with the pain
I also find that doctor depression drugs are fucked long term
The spikes etc are way worse
I tried them for some time with doctors and long term I am better without, weed helps me be more stable
I think for the most part I don't like the idea of doctors drugs for depression
However I do know that some people need them and go off the rails without them
If it works well for the individual then they are useful
I know some people who need their meds and feel they benefit from them
Generally I think there are other methods to learn to manage it though
For me they worked at first but long term it's no fix or help for me
I don't tell people my story often and only share bits and pieces here as I go but weed and in particular vaping over combustion really has been something that makes life more bearable
Good thread to find
Hope people are coping well :)
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ataxian
In a BLACK HOLE!
Be
I grew up after the hippie movement!
1970 when I first smoked cannabis at a bathroom on the beach before a surf movie!
My buddies that liked LSD took it every week-end!
One got his PhD and one died young?
The moral of the story is: We are all different!
Cannabis is safer than most thing’s if you grow it yourself?
GREEN RUSH is like bootleg?
CANNABIS does help with depression and other ailments!
Be careful of your source?
I grew up after the hippie movement!
1970 when I first smoked cannabis at a bathroom on the beach before a surf movie!
My buddies that liked LSD took it every week-end!
One got his PhD and one died young?
The moral of the story is: We are all different!
Cannabis is safer than most thing’s if you grow it yourself?
GREEN RUSH is like bootleg?
CANNABIS does help with depression and other ailments!
Be careful of your source?
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Study: Herbal Cannabis Associated with Short-Term Mitigation of Depressive Symptoms
Albuquerque, NM: Cannabis inhalation is associated with short-term reductions in depressive feelings, according to data published in the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine.
Investigators affiliated with the University of New Mexico assessed the effects of herbal cannabis inhalation on depressive feelings in 1,819 subjects over a one-month period. Study participants self-administered cannabis at home and reported symptom changes in real time on a mobile software application.
Researchers reported that “almost all patients in our sample [96 percent] experienced symptom relief from using cannabis to treat depression … with an average symptom intensity reduction of –3.76 points on a zero-to-ten visual analogue scale.”
Effects were generally limited in duration to two-hours or less. Cannabis varieties that were dominant in THC, not CBD, were most likely to be correlated with decreases in the intensity of depressive symptoms. Researchers reported “minimal evidence of serious side-effects in the short run,” though they acknowledged that prior studies have shown “mixed findings on the association between cannabis use and symptoms of depression, with unclear conclusions as to the direction of causality.”
They concluded: “Our results indicate that THC in particular is positively correlated with an immediate reduction in the intensity of depressive feelings. … Future research on cannabis and depression is needed, directly comparing the short- and long-term treatment effectiveness and side effect severity of cannabis use with conventional antidepressant treatment, in conjunction with conventional treatment approaches, and in the presence of clinically discouraged behaviors, such as alcohol consumption.”
Full text of the study, “The effectiveness of cannabis flower for immediate relief from symptoms of depression,” appears in the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine.
Albuquerque, NM: Cannabis inhalation is associated with short-term reductions in depressive feelings, according to data published in the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine.
Investigators affiliated with the University of New Mexico assessed the effects of herbal cannabis inhalation on depressive feelings in 1,819 subjects over a one-month period. Study participants self-administered cannabis at home and reported symptom changes in real time on a mobile software application.
Researchers reported that “almost all patients in our sample [96 percent] experienced symptom relief from using cannabis to treat depression … with an average symptom intensity reduction of –3.76 points on a zero-to-ten visual analogue scale.”
Effects were generally limited in duration to two-hours or less. Cannabis varieties that were dominant in THC, not CBD, were most likely to be correlated with decreases in the intensity of depressive symptoms. Researchers reported “minimal evidence of serious side-effects in the short run,” though they acknowledged that prior studies have shown “mixed findings on the association between cannabis use and symptoms of depression, with unclear conclusions as to the direction of causality.”
They concluded: “Our results indicate that THC in particular is positively correlated with an immediate reduction in the intensity of depressive feelings. … Future research on cannabis and depression is needed, directly comparing the short- and long-term treatment effectiveness and side effect severity of cannabis use with conventional antidepressant treatment, in conjunction with conventional treatment approaches, and in the presence of clinically discouraged behaviors, such as alcohol consumption.”
Full text of the study, “The effectiveness of cannabis flower for immediate relief from symptoms of depression,” appears in the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine.
Madri-Gal
Well-Known Member
If I'm depressed about not having cannabis, treatment with cannabis sure helps.
I'm sincerely hoping that everyone who suffers from depression can find relief. Cannabis helping in the short run might help during that terrible time of waiting for meds to kick in, in people who choose to use them.
Does cannabis help or worsen depression?
Depression has been called a disease of modernity. More than 17 million Americans are affected by it, and lifestyle factors can contribute to the disorder. Modern populations are often sedentary, sunlight- and sleep-deficient, socially isolated, and stressed, significantly affecting peoples’ well-being, jobs, and lives.
The relationship between cannabis and depression is complex. For some consumers, cannabis can elevate mood; for others, cannabis can worsen depressive symptoms. No clinical trials to date have focused on cannabis as a treatment for depression, so it’s currently difficult to draw decisive conclusions about whether the plant is helpful or harmful for individuals with depression.
The research that is available suggests that the connection between depression and cannabis is very nuanced. As new studies come to light, it may be that dose, cannabinoids, and use patterns can all influence whether cannabis can ease depression or exacerbate it.
What is depression?
Depression is a catch-all term for a range of mood disorders that tend to share certain defining symptoms. People living with depression often feel low, hopeless, or sad, and experience irregular sleep or eating patterns, a lack of energy, and the inability to feel excited or joyful.The most common types of depression include:
- Bipolar disorder: Formerly known as manic depression, this disorder is defined by episodes of high energy and depressed episodes of low energy
- Seasonal affective disorder: This disorder commonly occurs in climates and regions with less sunlight during certain seasons
- Major depressive disorder: A condition characterized by persistent feelings of sadness and a loss of interest in life, which impairs daily functioning
- Persistent depressive disorder: A low mood that occurs for two years or more
- Postpartum depression: Depression that occurs after childbirth
Researchers now realize that depression is often caused by the interplay of different mechanisms. Diverse factors, both inside and outside the body, can set depression in motion, including genetic factors, environmental factors, inflammation in the brain, and others. Awareness of this diversity of factors can help construct a more complete picture of what causes the disorder and how to treat it.
Depression and the endocannabinoid system
While the factors that can contribute to depression are many, attention has recently come to the role played by one of the critical systems in the body: the endocannabinoid system, or ECS.The ECS is a neurochemical signaling network that extends throughout the body, which helps maintain the healthy function of processes such as sleep, memory, mood, and appetite. It keeps the body in balance.
The cannabinoids in cannabis cause effects in the body via the endocannabinoid system, which is why cannabis can influence a person’s mood, appetite, and sleepiness.
While we still have much to learn about the endocannabinoid system, one thing is for sure: A well-functioning ECS is essential for maintaining mental health. Dysregulation of the ECS has already been linked to a broad range of illnesses, including psychiatric disorders.
Recent findings suggest that the ECS may play a critical role in depression. For example, one study found that women diagnosed with depression had altered levels of endocannabinoids compared to participants without depression.
In other studies, the CB1 receptors—a part of the endocannabinoid system—of rodents were removed via genetic modification, and the animals were then observed to be unable to experience joy and pleasure. Researchers also discovered that the animals had a higher likelihood of developing other symptoms associated with depression.
Is cannabis a treatment for, or cause of, depression?
A major 2020 study emphasized that while it’s clear that cannabinoids and terpenes found in cannabis could provide an antidepressant effect, no randomized controlled trials have been carried out investigating this outcome. In short, there is currently no robust clinical evidence to suggest that cannabis could be an effective treatment for depression.While the jury may still be out on the science, many cannabis consumers have already made their own minds up. Mood elevation is one of the most commonly cited reasons for marijuana consumption. People the world over have used cannabis for millennia as a means of increasing sociability, bringing about feelings of euphoria, and altering perception.
In one recent meta-analysis, a large analysis of the results of multiple scientific studies, 34% of participants reported using cannabis to treat depression and low mood—even though there are no states in the US that include depression as a qualifying condition for cannabis use.
However, many medical cannabis patients who have depression also live with pain—and by alleviating pain, depression is often also eased. For example, depression has been reported by up to 54% of patients seeking treatment for chronic pain.
Researchers have also spent time trying to figure out whether cannabis use can cause depression—or whether depression leads to cannabis use. Recent findings suggest that both might be true, but there’s stronger evidence to suggest that depression kicks off cannabis use. One study found that individuals with depression were more than two times as likely to use cannabis on a daily basis.
Research also suggests that long-term or heavy cannabis use may also increase the likelihood of developing depression. This doesn’t mean that all long-term cannabis users or heavy users will develop depression: other factors such as sex, genes, tolerance and personal circumstances all play a contributing role as well.
How cannabis dose, cannabinoids, and terpenes can affect depression
It’s vital to point out that the relationship between cannabis and depression is extremely nuanced, a fact that many experts acknowledge is often overlooked. The frequency of use, amount used, cannabinoid concentrations, and even the terpenes present may all influence whether cannabis contributes to depressive symptoms or helps alleviate them.
Dose
Those already familiar with cannabis know that the effects of a single toke, as opposed to an entire joint, can lead to different experiences. Cannabis, like many substances, can bring about opposing outcomes at distinct doses—a phenomenon known as bidirectional effects.In some individuals, very high doses of THC can increase depression, anxiety, and negative mood, a finding that has been echoed by other studies. On the other hand, low doses may reduce anxiety and perceptions of stress, helping to generate mild euphoria or feelings of uplift.
In many of these studies, however, precise doses were not identified, so it’s unclear how much, or how little, qualifies as a high dose or a low dose. It’s also worth noting that doses don’t affect everyone in the same way—factors such as personal tolerance, metabolism, even what you ate for lunch, can significantly influence your response to cannabis.
Until more research is carried out that specifically explores the effects of cannabis dosage on depressive symptoms, it’s hard to say conclusively exactly how dosing affects depression.
Cannabinoids
Studies also suggest that different combinations of cannabinoids may also influence whether cannabis eases or exacerbates the symptoms of depression.There’s evidence that THC taken with CBD may be beneficial as a treatment for depression in the short term. One study found that low THC/high CBD cannabis was most effective in reducing perceived symptoms of depression. In contrast, high THC/high CBD cannabis was found to be best in reducing the perceived symptoms of stress.
Preliminary data also indicate that CBD alone may offer therapeutic benefits in the treatment of symptoms of depression. Other research found that oral CBD reduced depressive symptoms in frequent cannabis consumers. This outcome resonates with the finding that CBD can counteract THC-induced anxiety in the previous study.
Additionally, in a survey of 2,409 CBD users, many participants revealed that they used CBD for depression. The survey also found that almost 36% of participants believed that CBD treated their condition very well by itself, but it’s important to note that the data provided an overall analysis of perceived efficacy of CBD across a range of conditions, rather than for depression specifically.
Terpenes
Finally, it appears that terpenes present in cannabis may also contribute to the antidepressant effects of the plant. Many common cannabis terpenes, such as β-caryophyllene and myrcene, are already associated with anti-anxiety effects. Anxiety often goes hand-in-hand with depression.There’s also evidence that several other terpenes may ease depressive symptoms. In a study where certain cannabis terpenes were compared to fluoxetine, a widely-used antidepressant, linalool and β-pinene were both found to produce an antidepressant-like effect in mice.
A unique synergy occurs when cannabinoids, terpenes, and other compounds in cannabis are combined, a phenomenon known as the entourage effect. When it comes to treating the symptoms associated with depression, harnessing the right combinations and ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes may be the key to enhancing the plant’s therapeutic benefits. Future research will tell.
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