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Meds Gout

Discussion in 'Why Do You Medicate?' started by momofthegoons, May 20, 2017.

  1. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons Vapor Accessory Addict Staff Member

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    I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything this plant can't do.... :juggle:

    Cannabinoids, Positive Results for Gout

    Arthropathy (Gout)

    A disturbance of uric-acid metabolism occurring chiefly in males, characterized by painful inflammation of the joints, especially of the feet and hands.

    Gout (also known as podagra when it involves the big toe) is a medical condition usually characterized by recurrent attacks of acute inflammatory arthritis—a red, tender, hot, swollen joint. The metatarsal-phalangeal joint at the base of the big toe is the most commonly affected. However, it may also present itself as tophi, kidney stones, or urate nephropathy. It is caused by elevated levels of uric acid in the blood which crystallize and are deposited in joints, tendons, and surrounding tissues.


    Diagnosis is confirmed clinically by the visualization of the characteristic crystals in joint fluid. Treatment with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), steroids, or colchicine, and most importantly medical marijuana improves symptoms. Once the acute attack has subsided, levels of uric acid are usually lowered via lifestyle changes.
    Gout has increased in frequency in recent decades affecting approximately one to two percent of the Western population at some point in their lives. The increase is believed to be due to increasing risk factors in the population, such as metabolic syndrome, longer life expectancy and changes in diet. Gout was historically known as "the disease of kings" or "rich man's disease".


    Signs and symptoms
    Gout can present in a number of ways, although the most usual is a recurrent attack of acute inflammatory arthritis (a red, tender, hot, swollen joint). T he metatarsal-phalangeal joint at the base of the big toe is affected most often, accounting for half of cases. Other joints, such as the heels, knees, wrists and fingers, may also be affected. Joint pain usually begins over 2–4 hours and during the night. The reason for onset at night is due to the lower body temperature then. Other symptoms that may occur along with the joint pain include fatigue and a high fever.
    Long-standing elevated uric acid levels (hyperuricemia) may result in other symptomatology, including hard, painless deposits of uric acid crystals known as tophi. Extensive tophi may lead to chronic arthritis due to bone erosion. Elevated levels of uric acid may also lead to crystals precipitating in the kidneys, resulting in stone formation and subsequent urate nephropathy.

    Cause
    Hyperuricemia is the underlying cause of gout. This can occur for a number of reasons, including diet, genetic predisposition, or under excretion of urate, the salts of uric acid. Renal under excretion of uric acid is the primary cause of hyperuricemia in about 90% of cases, while overproduction is the cause in less than 10%. About 10% of people with hyperuricemia develop gout at some point in their lifetimes. The risk, however, varies depending on the degree of hyperuricemia.


    Lifestyle
    Dietary causes account for about 12% of gout, and include a strong association with the consumption of alcohol, fructose-sweetened drinks, meat, and seafood. Other triggers include physical trauma and surgery. Recent studies have found dietary factors once believed to be associated are in fact not, including the intake of purine-rich vegetables and total protein. The consumption of coffee, vitamin C and dairy products as well as physical fitness appear to decrease the risk. This is believed to be partly due to their effect in reducing insulin resistance.

    Genetics
    The occurrence of gout is genetic, contributing to about 60% of variability in uric acid level. A few rare genetic disorders, including familial juvenile hyperuricemic nephropathy, medullary cystic kidney disease, phosphoribosylpyrophosphate synthetase super activity, and hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyltransferase deficiency as seen in Lesch-Nyhan syndrome, are complicated by gout.

    Medical conditions
    Gout frequently occurs in combination with other medical problems. Metabolic syndrome, a combination of abdominal obesity, hypertension, insulin resistance and abnormal lipid levels occurs in nearly 75% of cases. Other conditions which are commonly complicated by gout include:polycythemia, lead poisoning, renal failure, hemolytic anemia, psoriasis, and solid organ transplants. A body mass index greater than or equal to 35 increases a male's risk of gout threefold. Chronic lead exposure and lead-contaminated alcohol are risk factors for gout due to the harmful effect of lead on kidney function. Lesch-Nyhan syndrome is often associated with gouty arthritis.

    Prognosis
    Without treatment, an acute attack of gout will usually resolve in 5 to 7 days. However, 60% of people will have a second attack within one year. Those with gout are at increased risk of hypertension, diabetes mellitus, metabolic syndrome, and renal and cardiovascular disease and thus at increased risk of death. This may be partly due to its association with insulin resistance and obesity, but some of the increased risk appears to be independent.
    Without treatment, episodes of acute gout may develop into chronic gout with destruction of joint surfaces, joint deformity, and painless tophi. These tophi occur in 30% of those who are untreated for five years, often in the helix of the ear, over the olecranon processes, or on the Achilles tendons. With aggressive treatment, they may dissolve. Kidney stones also frequently complicate gout, affecting between 10 and 40% of people, and occur due to low urine pH promoting the precipitation of uric acid. Other forms of chronic renal dysfunction may occur.

    Epidemiology
    Gout affects around 1–2% of the Western population at some point in their lifetimes, and is becoming more common. Rates of gout have approximately doubled between 1990 and 2010. This rise is believed to be due to increasing life expectancy, changes in diet, and an increase in diseases associated with gout, such as metabolic syndrome and high blood pressure. A number of factors have been found to influence rates of gout, including age, race, and the season of the year. In men over the age of 30 and women over the age of 50, prevalence is 2%.
    In the United States, gout is twice as likely in African American males as it is in European Americans. Rates are high among the peoples of the Pacific Islands and the Maori of New Zealand, but rare in Australian aborigines, despite a higher mean concentration of serum uric acid in the latter group. I t has become common in China, Polynesia, and urban sub-Saharan Africa. Some studies have found attacks of gout occur more frequently in the spring. This has been attributed to seasonal changes in diet, alcohol consumption, physical activity, and temperature.


    Medication
    Diuretics have been associated with attacks of gout. However, a low dose of hydrochlorothiazide does not seem to increase the risk. Other medicines that have been associated include niacin and aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid). Cyclosporine is also associated with gout, particularly when used in combination with hydrochlorothiazide, as are the immuno-suppressive drugs ciclosporin and tacrolimus.

    Prevention
    Both lifestyle changes and medications can decrease uric acid levels. Dietary and lifestyle choices that are effective include reducing intake of food such as meat and seafood, consuming adequate vitamin C, limiting alcohol and fructose consumption, and avoiding obesity. A low-calorie diet in obese men decreased uric acid levels. Vitamin C intake of 1,500 mg per day decreases the risk of gout by 45% compared to 250 mg per day. Coffee, but not tea, consumption is associated with a lower risk of gout. Gout may be secondary to sleep apnea via the release of purines from oxygen-starved cells. Treatment of apnea can lessen the occurrence of attacks.

    Treatment
    The initial aim of treatment is to settle the symptoms of an acute attack. Different drugs used to reduce the serum uric acid levels can prevent repeated attacks. Ice applied for 20 to 30 minutes several times a day decreases pain. Options for acute treatment include nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), colchicine and steroids, while options for prevention include allopurinol, febuxostat and probenecid. Lowering uric acid levels can cure the disease. Treatment of co morbidities is also important.

    NSAIDs
    NSAIDs are the usual first-line treatment for gout, and no specific agent is significantly more or less effective than any other is. Improvement may be seen within 4 hours, and treatment is recommended for 1–2 weeks. They are not recommended, however in those with certain other health problems, such as gastrointestinal bleeding, renal failure, or heart failure. While indomethacin has historically been the most commonly used NSAID, an alternative, such as ibuprofen, may be preferred due to its better side effect profile in the absence of superior effectiveness. For those at risk of gastric side effects from NSAIDs, an additional proton pump inhibitor may be given.

    Colchicine
    Colchicine is an alternative for those unable to tolerate NSAIDs. Its side effects (primarily gastrointestinal upset) limit its usage. Gastrointestinal upset, however, depends on the dose, and the risk can be decreased by using smaller yet still effective doses. Colchicine may interact with other commonly prescribed drugs, such as atorvastatin and erythromycin, among others.

    Steroids
    Glucocorticoids have been found to be as effective as NSAIDs and may be used if contraindications exist for NSAIDs. They also lead to improvement when injected into the joint; the risk of a joint infection must be excluded, however, as they worsen this condition.

    Pegloticase

    Pegloticase (Krystexxa) was approved in the USA to treat gout in 2010. It will be an option for the 3% of people who are not adequately treated with other medications due to their association with severe allergic reactions. Pegloticase is administered as an intravenous infusion every two weeks. As of March 2010, however, no double blind, placebo controlled trials have been completed.

    Prophylaxis
    A number of medications are useful for preventing further episodes of gout, including xanthine oxidase inhibitor (including allopurinol and febuxostat) and uricosurics (including probenecid and sulfinpyrazone). They are not usually commenced until one to two weeks after an acute attack has resolved, due to theoretical concerns of worsening the attack, and are often used in combination with either an NSAID or colchicine for the first 3–6 months. They are not recommended until a person has suffered two attacks of gout, unless destructive joint changes, tophi, or urate nephropathy exist, as it is not until this point that medications have been found to be cost effective. Urate-lowering measures should be increased until serum uric acid levels are below (5.0-6.0 mg/dL) and are continued indefinitely. If these medications are being used chronically at the time of an attack, it is recommended they be continued.

    As a rule of thumb, uricosuric drugs are preferred if there is under secretion of uric acid, in turn indicated if a 24-hour collection of urine results in a uric acid amount of less than 800mg. They are, however, contraindicated if the person has a history of renal stones. In contrast, a 24-hour urine excretion of more than 800mg indicates overproduction, and xanthine oxidase inhibitors are preferred. Overall, probenecid appears to be less effective than allopurinol.


    Xanthine oxidase inhibitors (including allopurinol and febuxostat) block uric acid production, and long-term therapy is safe and well tolerated, and can be used in people with renal impairment or urate stones, although allopurinol has caused hypersensitivity in a small number of individuals. I n such cases, the alternative drug febuxostat have been recommended.
    The Dutch scientist Antonie van Leeuwenhoek first described the microscopic appearance of urate crystals in 1679. In 1848 English physician, Alfred Baring Garrod realized that this excess uric acid in the blood was the cause of gout.
    Gout is a disorder of purine metabolism, an nd occurs when its final metabolite, uric acid, crystallizes in the form of monosodium urate, precipitating in joints, on tendons, and in the surrounding tissues. These crystals then trigger a local immune-mediated inflammatory reaction with one of the key proteins in the inflammatory cascade being interleukin 1β. An evolutionary loss of uricase, which breaks down uric acid, in humans and higher primates is what has made this condition so common.

    The triggers for precipitation of uric acid are not well understood. While it may crystallize at normal levels, it is more likely to do so as levels increase. Other factors believed to be important in triggering an acute episode of arthritis include cool temperatures, rapid changes in uric acid levels, acidosis, articular hydration, and extracellular matrix proteins, such as proteoglycans, collagens, and chondroitin sulfate. The increased precipitation at low temperatures partly explains why the joints in the feet are most commonly affected. Rapid changes in uric acid may occur due to a number of factors, including trauma, surgery, chemotherapy, diuretics, and stopping or starting allopurinol.
    Gout is rare in most other animals due to their ability to produce uricase, which breaks down uric acid. Humans and other great apes have lost this ability, and thus gout is common. The Tyrannosaurus rex specimen known as "Sue", however, is believed to have suffered from gout.


    Benefits of Marijuana
    One of marijuana’s oldest recorded uses is relieving swelling and inflammation. Currently, modern scientists are exploring a network of cannabinoid receptor sites located throughout the body. This new understandings of cannabinoid research clearly supports the historical references on treating inflammation with marijuana. Different cannabinoids founds naturally in marijuana have different benefits for arthritis sufferers. Tetrahydroconnabinol (THC) is beneficial as a pain reliever. Cannabichromene (CBC) and cannabidiol (CBD) have been shown in clinical studies to have valuable anti-inflammatory properties.

    Condition Description
    Arthritis literally means "joint inflammation". It consists of more than 100 different conditions. The common symptoms for all these conditions are joint and musculoskeletal pain, which is why they are all considered forms of “arthritis'. Often the pain associated with arthritis is a result of inflammation of the joint lining. Inflammation is the body's natural response to injury. The warning signs that inflammation presents are redness, swelling, heat and pain. When a joint becomes inflamed, it can prevent the normal use of the joint and therefore it can cause the loss of function of joint.
    Gout is one of the most painful forms of arthritis. Gout is caused when crystals of uric acid form in the connective tissue and/or joint spaces

    Cont. for Research credits....
     
  2. Disrupt

    Disrupt Well-Known Member

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    Learned a few things, thanks.

    Gout sufferer here, recovering from second attack. 40 years of veganism helped delay the onset considerably compared to Dad, who loved organ meats and other triggers. Mushrooms and yeast are just as bad, IME.

    Can't say whether cannabis helped, but it could have been worse. At least, it offers an alternative for some of alcohol's desired effects.
     
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  3. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Now, don't be drinking the Kool-aid to fast there, Mom. Gout results in deposits of crystallized uric acid in the joints...more or less...and as I read the above, I don't see any peer reviewed study supporting MJ as a remedy for gout pain aside from MJ's general anti-inflammatory properties.

    But, it would be great if proved true.
     
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  4. deep_meditation

    deep_meditation Well-Known Member

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    I had a friend who suffered from gout. He too liked organ meats. A bunch of us once went to a special private “head to tail”dinner. We had tongue, heart, sweetbreads, liver, kidneys, trotters, and tripe all prepared in different wants. I don’t think he was in good shape. Not sure if cannabis would have helped after that blowout or a meal. As an aside, I’ve since started to move to a plant based diet and feel much better. My doctor is happier with my numbers.
     
  5. Disrupt

    Disrupt Well-Known Member

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    That's a big part of the treatment. Prednisone is popular, but causes 'roid rage, IME.

    Actually wondering if a unique cannabis preparation might have been the trigger. Save all the filtered material from QWET runs, which loses much of its volume. In the MB2, extracted about 8 zips starting material into ~500mls MCT oil in two runs. Washing several times with water removed relatively little gunk. The effects are mild and very sedative - need to find a bed sedative.

    Afraid this process might be concentrating some unwanted substances, as it's ~5-10x more starting material than is typically used. Experienced a premonition of the coming attack while consuming popcorn drizzled with it. Had a similar feeling while drinking a favorite sour beer (last beer ever) before the first attack.

    It's a long way to go from a head-to-tail dinner to a gout-safe diet. Now, eat nothing but tofu, raw vegetables and MCT oil (for calories). A sort of vegan keto diet with even some vegetables and sweet fruits excluded. Been unknowingly preparing for decades. Plant-based is a big step in the right direction - good luck! No regrets, but shouldn't have become complacent.

    As the article says, it is treatable. Dad takes allopurinol, and isn't especially careful with his diet. Probably have to one day as well. Don't like possible side-effects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  6. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    I have a fairly damaged back and am very familiar with Prednisone and at levels generally higher than most are prescribed.....what a burn out....its awful but effective....but awful.


    Cheers
     
  7. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone in here tried DMSO on gout? I recently watched someone experience near-immediate relief from application of a 70% cannabis-infused dmso/30% aloe vera directly on the affected joint (wrist). 2 minutes after application, with a shocked look says "it's gone? It's fucking gone? It's gone!".

    Anyhoo, ymmv, right?
    ;)
     
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  8. Disrupt

    Disrupt Well-Known Member

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    You have my attention. Was it relatively pure cannabinoids to start? There are times when any relief is appreciated. Please PM or post a link, if you think of it. Again, feeling almost back to normal after two delightful injections in toe joints.

    With above comment regarding cannabis, concern is that lots of purines were extracted from all of those concentrated cell nuclei, most of a plant. Suspect that's the problem - foods made up of large numbers of small cells, whether animal or vegetable. This might include calyxes. Just a guess, but purines are fat-soluble. Of course, there are other mechanisms that can result in high uric acid levels.
     
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  9. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Well-Known Member

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    I was treated with DMSO (Rimso) once a week for over a year. It was horrible. It stank so bad, the appointments were scheduled when there wasn't likely to be another patient after, the room you were in would smell bad. Before treatment, you had to schedule future appointments, make payments, and so on, because as soon as the DMSO was used, you had to get out the back door. No lingering. You then stank like far too much garlic, even with repeated showers, for a day. Best to schedule this one at the end of the work day Friday, and plan to stay in. Any relief provided wasn't worth it, and I was more than happy to quit Rimso forever. I'm wasn't using it for gout, and I'm not saying it wasn't helpful, but it stinks , and you will stink.
     
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  10. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    DMSO (pharma grade, 99.95%) is a polar solvent, much like EverClear. I infuse it with screened sift, so relatively pure cannabinoids. When you scoop the sift into the DMSO and leave it sit for awhile you can watch the trichome husks dissolve and sink to the bottom of the container. I use a transfer pipette to extract the liquid, leaving the sludge on the bottom. Once you have this liquid cannabis/DMSO slurry you can then mix it with aloe vera anywhere from 30% DMSO to 70% DMSO and apply on pain points. Or put it in a dropper bottle and apply at full strength, just ensure your hands and the affected area are clean, as DMSO carries compounds through the skin.

    Of course you could try it without the cannabinoids, but everything is better with cannabinoids IMHO. Some people experience a mild sunburn sensation when using it at full strength on skin, usually face and neck areas tend to be most affected, which is why it's suggested to mix it with aloe as a diluting agent. 30% DMSO is the lowest amount I use to ensure that antibacterial properties of DMSO are intact.

    Treatments using pure DMSO can be a wide range of DMSO % content by volume. DMSO is useable as a topical, ingestible, injectable (subQ, IV and IM) and also drinkable. It removes scar tissue and raised cheloid scarring. The strong warning here is that DMSO can carry 'things', both good and bad, through skin into the Interstitial organ and lymphatic system. I infuse it with cannabinoids, but it's also the compound that gives transdermal pain patches their transdermal capabilities. Ensure that your skin is very clean and free of residue, such as insect repellent, dirt, bacteria or anything else you wouldn't want inside you.

    There are several helpful books out there:
    https://www.amazon.ca/Dimethyl-Sulfoxide-DMSO-Trauma-Disease/dp/1138894621
    https://www.amazon.ca/DMSO-Handbook-Doctors-Archie-Scott/dp/1475997922


    I don't know Rimso at all, and you don't say what type of treatment you were being given, so it's difficult to comment. Having said that maybe you'd have better luck with MSM, which is DMSO-lite but has no smell at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylsulfonylmethane
    This is a blurb from the Wiki link:
    Structure and chemical properties
    MSM and the corresponding sulfoxide, dimethyl sulfoxide ((CH3)2SO, or DMSO), have different physical properties. MSM is a white crystalline solid at room temperature (m.p. = 109 °C) whereas DMSO is typically a liquid (m.p. = 19 °C). The sulfoxide is a highly polar aprotic solvent and is miscible with water; it is also an excellent ligand. MSM is less reactive than DMSO because the S-atom of the sulfone is already in its highest oxidation state (VI). Indeed, oxidation of the sulfoxide produces the sulfone, both under laboratory conditions and metabolically.[5]
    ~~~

    Pure DMSO has a mild smell, and some users can taste a slight garlic taste after application. I've never experienced an issue with the 'stink', but if smelling bad is worse than severe pain then your pain might not be that severe. It helps me enough that I wouldn't care if I smelled like I was freshly sprayed by a skunk. I carry a roller bottle applicator in my pocket and apply anytime something starts to hurt. Thats how my gouty neighbour was introduced to it, and it was pretty fantastic watching his pain go away almost immediately upon application.

    Here's a fun factoid: Pure DMSO freezes at +18c. A test for purity involves placing a jar of DMSO in the fridge. If it crystallizes, it's pure. Take that same DMSO and mix it with distilled water. At the right ratio it's new freezing point is -20c, making it the perfect combination of fluids to store and protect human organs between host and transplant recipient, as the organs can be stored below freezing, with no worries of ice crystal formation to harm donor tissue. DMSO is also used to store semen samples for artificial insemination, with samples being viable 20 years after being placed in solution.
     
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  11. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Well-Known Member

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    Rimso is the pharmaceutical name. I'm not interested in trying any other form. I'm well aware of what it is, and what it does. I'm also very aware of my pain level. Surely you didn't mean to suggest that you are aware of my pain level, and that it couldn't be "that severe". That's a terrible thing to say, just to make a point. It was excruciating, unbearable pain, and I was finally able to get an implanted medical device to help control the pain. I've needed one device after another for 30 years. I have had pain every day and night if my life since the age of 8, and why you would suggest that it didn't meet your standards, because of quitting a medication with a known and obnoxious smell associated with it, I don't know. The benefit from the Rimso was not great enough to make it worth the additional terrible pain of installation and smell, and that does not mean I wasn't in sufficient pain. You clearly don't know what you are talking about when it comes to my health and pain level. DMSO is not for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  12. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons Vapor Accessory Addict Staff Member

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    @Madri-Gal knowing @Killick the way I do, I know he didn't mean to diminish or negate your pain or experience with DMSO... rather that he's had such great success with it that he can't imagine it not working for you. Your post above wasn't really clear on the severity of what you were being treated for and he may not be familiar with your story. :smile:

    Let's all remember that we are in this 'together.' And that we're all communicating with the written word... which can be hard to negotiate without making eye contact. We can misconstrue intent very easily. :peace:
     
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  13. Disrupt

    Disrupt Well-Known Member

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    Familiar with DMSO from lab days - used it to dissolve things that wouldn't dissolve in anything else. Definitely worth looking into, thanks!
     
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  14. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that. I have long admired @Killick, and rejoiced on his recent good fortune. It might be best for someone to clarify before judging others pain . We all are aware of those in the medical profession dismissing and minimizing the pain of others, and promoting a favorite remedy we know doesn't work for us despite the enthusiasm of the practitioner. We don't need to do it too each other, do we? The very fact that the name Rimso is so unfamiliar to someone so strongly promoting this medication, indicates to me further study us needed. Or at least a google. I don't know how much familiarity a person needs with the condition of another to not tell someone their pain isn't "that severe". I'm a fairly open person, but I wasn't asked clarifying questions before my situation was written off in a fairly insulting manner. If a physician dismissed my experience and pain in such an unkind and unsympathetic manner, I would switch. In fact, I left that first doctor for that attitude. It isn't helpful, and my impression was that @Killick was being trying to helpful, but trying to be helpful isn't helpful, with incomplete knowledge and patronizing and/or dismissive attitude.
    The current recommendation for the installation of Rimso is that the first two or three treatments be under general anesthesia, it's known to be so painful. It also smells more than just a hint of garlic. That was the point of the story. It has uses, and limitations. Ultimately, it was the lack of results that led me to quit, as much as the pain and pure stench. If a person isn't aware of the reek potential, well, it's there, and others know, and can smell it. A person needs to know there are trade offs. DMSO, helps some people, not everyone. Some people have bad experiences with it. Some people are desperate for it to work, and it doesn't. I've sat in enough waiting rooms, and support groups, and talked to people that desperatly wanted Rimso to work, and it's not always the miracle one hopes for. People have to actually leave home sometimes, and the smell can interfere with work and social lives. It happens.
    As to the reminder that we are all in this together, and the written word is difficult , etc. I would have felt better if there had been any acknowledgement that I am only part if this communication. I am a nice woman. My pain is as real to me as anyone else's is to them, and it was an insulting thing to say, the way it was said. If it wasn't meant that way, the person posting knows they can say that it wasn't meant the way it sounded.
    I appreciate your input, @momofthegoons, and that you have given us all a space to have these conversations. Using Rimso, or DMSO, taught me to not just take what another person said about my body, my pain, and my treatment, and ignore my actual experience. It led me to switch doctor's and get actual help. It's been a great teacher. If it hadn't been for Rimso, I might still be taking any Rx a doctor handed me without complaint, and to my detriment. I've had other doctor's use Rimso in my treatment, and despite how terrible it was, the original pain was bad enough that I did, in fact, continue to let well meaning physicians who either fervently "believed " in the product, or had nothing else to offer, install Rimso at various times, over the course of 30 years despite knowing better. This is how "knowing better"came to be translated into "refuse treatment that doesn't work" . I am far more experienced with Rimso than cannabis. That's why I felt I could at least say, "be aware, you can get real stench here."
    I don't dislike the drug. I have no place for it in my life, but am thrilled others benefit, if and when they do. I do dislike being told my pain somehow doesn't hurt enough, and I will always stand up for myself when that happens. That's what I got from DMSO.
     
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  15. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read all the comments, but will. @Madri-Gal
    I want to clarify that i wasn't judging nor negating your pain levels. Ive been fighting with my own pain since 1985, and it's been a rough journey that has been getting better.
    I've stopped mant medical treatment that didn't seem to help, despite the assurances of medical 'professionals' that "this is a gold standard treatment', or 'this pill has great promise, but be watchful for the serious side effects'. There comes a point where you start to wonder whether it's worthwhile continuing to live - is it really worth spending your entire day feeling like you are being stabbed to death by simply breathing, standing, and walking?

    Fortunately, after years of dozens of pain specialists prescribing more and worse meds i found a pain doctor who actually cared and got me into different treatments that actually helped. It wasn't a fast process, but there was positive movement. The extended hospitalizations blamed on pharma was what prompted my pain doc to get me started on cannabis.

    Now, a few years pharma-free, after years of drug experimentation and dozens of overdoses, I'm much healthier than i was just a couple of years ago. Pain is more manageable, and dmso plays a part in management.

    You negated a very positive treatment by telling everyone that, no matter what or how they do it, that they will 'stink'. Your facts aren't facts, they are your opinion based on a treatment you had. Your experiences are your own. You don't explain what the treatment was, but you should be aware that there are other ways of taking these meds, not everyone will have your experience, and for a great many patients this treatment works very well. Maybe before knocking it you'll take an opportunity to learn more about it. Maybe you'll find a way that it can also help you. I'm able to help answer questions, or point you to alternate ways that these compounds may help, but according to you they are useless due to an odour you experienced. I propose that your opinion is based on one use of a compound that contained, amongst other things, DMSO. And it obviously didn't agree with you. These things happen, but it might be RIMSO at issue, and not DMSO.

    Personally if less pain came with some sort of harmless odour, I'll choose pain reduction. Pain reduction without prescription meds, and no side effects of organ damage, suicidal thoughts or sudden death should be a goal of every pain patient.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  16. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    Ps - Rimso is a chemical formulation that contains dmso. To be totally clear I'm only familiar with pure 99.95% pharmaceutical grade dmso, which is suitable for both intramuscular and intravenous injection. Perhaps your issue is with Rimso? To be very clear Rimso isn't DMSO. It's a pharmaceutical compound that includes DMSO, and this makes it a drug, and not an organic sulphur compound, which is what pure DMSO is.

    Here's Rimso...
    https://www.drugs.com/pro/rimso-50.html
    NOT FOR INTRAMUSCULAR OR INTRAVENOUS INJECTION.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  17. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to see here folks, move along, it's all fine. @Killick and I are good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  18. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons Vapor Accessory Addict Staff Member

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    Okay.... if this is turning into a discussion about DMSO and not Gout... perhaps we should start another thread on it?

    But if this is still about the misunderstanding, I suggest you take it to pm.
     
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  19. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

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    @Madri-Gal - with respect - you've had one form of treatment, and it didn't agree with you. Thats unfortunate. As the old saying goes - the best thing about banging your head against a wall is stopping. I'm glad you decided to stop a treatment that didn't work for you. Fortunately it works very well for many conditions. I've never tried it as a bladder med. I use it for joint pain and to reduce swelling and inflammation.

    I'm going to stop posting on this topic. If anyone would like to learn more about how to use this safe and non-toxic compound please send a PM and I'm happy to help.

    Or download this book to get started on your own research.
    https://edoc.site/the-dmso-handbook-for-doctors-pdf-free.html

    PS - @momofthegoons - a new thread might be useful, but in this instance we're talking specifically about gout, and how to deal with it, before being derailed by someone's sense of smell during a non-gout treatment.
     
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  20. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Well-Known Member

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    We already had, and @Killick contacted me while I was posting. I think my edit got caught while trying to edit post. @Killick was so kind as to PM me, and I ran back here to deal with this, before finishing our conversation. Sorry @Killick, I'll be right there.
     
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