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Law MMJ and the 2nd Amendment

Baron23

Well-Known Member
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/marijuana/marijuana-use-muddies-nevada-federal-gun-laws/


The interplay of guns and marijuana, particularly medicinal, has raised a variety of issues for everyone from gun dealers and law enforcement to marijuana users.

Since those questions involve not only federal but state law and local ordinances, it’s complicated.

The first thing hunters, sportsmen and other gun owners probably don’t know but need to know is that, if you have a medical marijuana card, you won’t be allowed to buy a gun.

Second, if you use pot, forget about a concealed weapons permit.

And, if you are high and have a gun on your person, you’re guilty of a misdemeanor. By the way, that law also applies to having a gun on you while drunk.

To buy a gun, everyone has to fill out a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives TF Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.

Because states have been legalizing medical and recreational marijuana use, the Justice Department last year added language to the section if the applicant is “an unlawful user or addicted to marijuana” or other drugs. Question 11e on the form was amended to add: “Warning: the use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”

The form goes on to state that anyone who answers yes to that question “is prohibited from purchasing or receiving a firearm.”

The simple answer might seem to be just answer question 11e “no.” A recreational user with no criminal history could do that but there is a record of who has a medical marijuana card. That information is confidential even from law enforcement but, for cause, could be obtained by a court order.

Also, even recreational users need to know that making a false statement on that application is a felony punishable by up to five years in federal prison.

It’s equally inadvisable to have some one else buy you a gun or to buy one for another person. According to Nevada Department of Public Safety Records Bureau Chief Mindy McKay that is what they call a “straw purchase” which is also a federal felony punishable by potentially serious prison time.

Importantly, neither the form nor the accompanying statutes, regulations and instructions say that person is prohibited from “possessing” a firearm that he or she may have purchased earlier, only from buying or receiving a weapon.

In other words, if your gun purchase is rejected, no one will show up at the front door demanding surrender of your other weapons.

If, however, there’s something really suspicious about you, the gun dealer could contact the state’s Point of Contact Firearms Program about doing an investigation. Admittedly, that’s unlikely.

McKay said gun dealers “are the first line of defense when deciding whether or not to initiate a background check.” In fact, reputable gun dealers have repeatedly said they have refused to sell some one a weapon for a variety of reasons.

The ban on medical pot users buying a gun isn’t permanent. According to McKay, it’s “a temporary prohibitor” that expires a year after the expiration or surrender of the medical marijuana card.

State law is equally clear that marijuana and other drug users can’t get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

But, under Nevada law, that too isn’t a permanent disqualifier. It bars some one from getting a CCW permit if they have been convicted of DUI or committed to treatment for substance abuse within the past five years. The rule applies to alcohol as well as drug use.

State law is also clear that physical possession of a gun while intoxicated — on alcohol or drugs including pot — is illegal. It’s a misdemeanor that could result in confiscation of the weapon. NRS202 states that the firearm is subject to forfeiture only if, “the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.” That conviction would likely bar some one from purchasing a weapon.

That statute, however, doesn’t define pot “intoxication,” the definition of which was changed by the 2015 Legislature to require testing for active THC levels in the blood.

McKay said detailed information on concealed weapons permits is available from local sheriff’s who issue the permits. Some of the rules vary from county to county.

In addition, owners seeking to get their gun back should contact the local law enforcement agency that confiscated it.

She said her division gets frequent questions and comments about whether the rules violate someone’s Second Amendment rights. McKay said the records and compliance division administers the programs according to federal and state laws, that they don’t make the laws. She said anyone who believes their rights are being infringed upon should contact their federal and local elected officials.

So, let's be clear. The language on the Form 4473 was not passed in that form as part of any legislation issued from Congress and signed by a President. It is an administratively generated regulation by the ATF (who can suck a number of my appendages).

To me, its is the height of lunacy to believe that a rule promulgated by a bureaucracy can in any way overturn an enumerated individual right and this complete and utter horseshit needs to be tested in court. SCOTUS...do you fucking job and quit dancing around 2nd amendment issues.
 

momofthegoons

Vapor Accessory Addict
Staff member
I just read a similar article from last September that was in a NORML post on Facebook today. And it makes me wonder.... under what 'provisions' does one have to give up their constitutional rights? Seems to me that using medicine isn't one of them. And the key word here is MEDICINAL Marijuana. I didn't have to give up my right to bear arms when using Norco. Or Oxy. And since when are cannabis users more violent and prone to negative erratic behavior than someone on alcohol? It makes no sense at all. :twocents:
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member

9th Circuit ruling notwithstanding, I believe this will be in court for a very long time.

As an aside, I view with wide eyed wonder as it seems that the many bastions of supposed 'progressive' policies and 'liberalism' are just as controlling and intrusive into your personal life, and just as prohibitionist as Red states, just on different topics. Sad....really sad.


Surrender Your Guns, Police Tell Hawaiian Medical Marijuana Patients

The Honolulu Police Department has sent letters to local medical marijuana patients ordering them to “voluntarily surrender” their firearms because of their MMJ status.


This may be the first time a law enforcement agency has sought out state-registered medical marijuana patients and ordered them to surrender their guns.
The letters, signed by Honolulu Police Chief Susan Ballard, inform patients that they have 30 days upon receipt of the letter to transfer ownership or turn in their firearms and ammunition to the Honolulu Police.

The existence of the notices, first reported early today by Russ Belville at The Marijuana Agenda podcast, was confirmed to Leafly News this afternoon by the Honolulu Police Department.

The startling order comes just three months after the state’s first medical marijuana dispensary opened in Hawaii’s capital city.

The clash between state marijuana laws and federal firearms law—which prohibits all cannabis patients and consumers from purchasing firearms—is a growing point of legal contention in the 29 states with medical marijuana laws. The Honolulu letters, however, may represent the first time a law enforcement agency has proactively sought out state-registered medical marijuana patients and ordered them to surrender their guns.


Federal law clearly prohibits anyone who consumes cannabis—for any reason, and regardless of state legality—from purchasing a firearm. On the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) Form 1140-0020, which must be completed by firearm purchasers, applicants are asked if they are “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.”

In case it’s unclear to the applicant, the ATF includes this warning in bold type:

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.


RELATED STORY
Can Medical Marijuana Patients Legally Own Guns?

Federal Court Upheld the Ban
Many state laws allow patients to medicate with cannabis, but the federal prohibition on cannabis consumption crosses that legality when it comes to firearms. The supremacy of federal law on this point was upheld last year by the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals.

“It may be argued that medical marijuana users are less likely to commit violent crimes, as they often suffer from debilitating illnesses, for which marijuana may be an effective palliative,” the federal ruling stated. “But those hypotheses are not sufficient to overcome Congress’s reasonable conclusion that the use of such drugs raises the risk of irrational or unpredictable behavior with which gun use should not be associated.”


RELATED STORY
Guns or Cannabis: Which Is More Strictly Regulated?

State Law Applies
The Honolulu Police Department cites state law, not federal law, as the basis for the order. “Under the provisions of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 134-7(a), you are disqualified from firearms ownership,” says the letter.

Curiously, HRS 134-7(a) makes no specific mention of a person’s medical marijuana status. It’s a blanket statement about federal law:

134-7(a) No person who is a fugitive from justice or is a person prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition under federal law shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition therefor.

Until now, the clash between firearm ownership and patient status has been largely avoided through a de facto “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Firearms purchasers are forced to either lie on the ATF form (a federal offense), or tell themselves they’re technically honest—the ATF form asks, “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana,” and those who quit cannabis yesterday technically were but no longer are unlawful users of marijuana.


RELATED STORY
Do Medical Marijuana Patients Give Up Their Right to Bear Arms?

A number of states issue medical cannabis patient cards or authorizations but do not keep a searchable database of patient names. In some medical cannabis states, like Arizona, firearm purchasers are not required to register with the state.

Hawaii, though, maintains an electronic database of both firearm purchasers, who must complete both the federal ATF and a state permit application, and medical marijuana patients. That allowed the Honolulu police to cross-check and compile a list of MMJ patients in the state’s firearms registry.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Boy, you want to know who the real facists are....just look to the prohibitionists and anti's. Hope that this police chief has some sense.


Hawaii reviewing policy banning guns for medical marijuana users


By The Associated Press

HONOLULU — The Honolulu Police Department is reviewing a policy requiring medical marijuana users to turn over their firearms, police officials say.

The department sent letters to at least 30 gun owners last month, saying they had 30 days to surrender or transfer ownership of their guns.

The notices sparked backlash from residents, prompting the police review, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported Friday.

The letters dated Nov. 13 stated the person’s ownership of firearms and ammunition was disqualified because of the use of medical marijuana.

Related stories
Federal law prohibits firearm possession for unlawful users of controlled substances. Pot is classified as a controlled substance under federal law.

The names of Police Chief Susan Ballard and another police official were printed at the bottom of the letters, though only the signature of the other official was on the letter obtained by the newspaper.

A police spokeswoman said Ballard is reviewing the policy.

Dr. Clifton Otto, an advocate for medical marijuana, said the department cannot justify taking firearms away by citing medical marijuana use as a violation of federal law.

Federal scheduling of marijuana does not apply for medical use in Hawaii, he said.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
This just ain't Ohio.

No guns: Ohio's medical marijuana users won't be able to have firearms

People who register with the state of Ohio to legally use medical marijuana will be prohibited from possessing firearms under federal law, according to guidance released by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

In an open letter to federally licensed firearms dealers, the ATF advised in 2011 that marijuana is still a Schedule I controlled substance under federal law so any use of the drug is unlawful, and gun dealers are prohibited from providing guns or ammo to anyone they have cause to believe uses pot.

“There are no exceptions in federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such is sanctioned by state law,” the memo says.

The law applies to more than just buying guns. The ATF letter says marijuana users are prohibited from “shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition.”

Anyone applying to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer must sign a form attesting he or she is not “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.”

“Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside,” the form notes.

Lying on the form is a felony under federal law, punishable with up to 10 years in prison.

“There is definitely a conflict between the state laws and the federal laws,” said Joe Eaton, southwest Ohio spokesman for the Buckeye Firearms Association.

It’s not clear how to reconcile that conflict, he said, “We are confused as everyone else at this point.”

When Ohio’s medical marijuana program becomes operational in September 2018, Ohioans will be able to register to use cannabis if they have a recommendation from a physician saying they have one of 21 qualifying conditions.

Industry analysts have estimated as many of 24 percent of the state’s population – or about 2.8 million Ohioans – have a qualifying condition.

The conflict between federal firearms laws and state cannabis laws has flared up on other states.

In Hawaii, Honolulu police last month told residents who had medical marijuana cards they have 30 days to turn in their firearms to authorities, according to reports in the Honolulu Star Advertiser.

The Associated Press reports that a federal circuit court of appeals ruling on a case out of Nevada found that the federal ban on the sale of guns to medical marijuana users doesn’t violate the Second Amendment.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
That chief of police apparently didn't want to get strung up by a mob of angry citizens who support the enumerated individual rights in the Constitution.

Honolulu Police Chief to MMJ Patients: We’re Reviewing Gun Policy

Honolulu’s chief of police has temporarily rescinded the voluntary order for medical marijuana patients to surrender their firearms in the next 30 days.

On Tuesday, the Honolulu Star Advisor reported the department’s new chief of police, Susan Ballard, would not mandate state-sanctioned patients relinquish their firearms while the department consults with other government agencies and scrutinizes applicable court rulings.

An analysis of the medical marijuana/gun policy comes on the heels of mounting criticism over a letter sent to patients on Nov. 13.

In the letter, Honolulu’s police chief cites provisions within the state’s revised statutes.

“This letter is to inform you that under the provisions of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS), Section 134-7(a) you are disqualified from firearms ownership, possession or controlling firearms. Your medical marijuana use disqualifies you from ownership of firearms and ammunition.

HRS 134-7.3 Seizure of Firearms upon Disqualification:

If you currently own or have any firearms, you have 30 days upon receipt of this letter to voluntarily surrender your firearms, permit, and ammunition to The Honolulu Police Department (HPD) or otherwise transfer ownership.”

Michelle Yu, a department spokeswoman, explained that 30 medical marijuana cardholders had received such letters since Jan. 1, 2017, according to PoliceOne.com

On hold, for now, the HPD was forced to reassess their policy once the Honolulu Star Advisor broke the story on Nov. 28. While this is temporarily good news for fans of the Second Amendment, the Honolulu Police Department said it will continue to “deny new firearms permits to applicants with medical marijuana cards.”
 

OldOyler

Well-Known Member
That chief of police apparently didn't want to get strung up by a mob of angry citizens who support the enumerated individual rights in the Constitution.

Honolulu Police Chief to MMJ Patients: We’re Reviewing Gun Policy

Honolulu’s chief of police has temporarily rescinded the voluntary order for medical marijuana patients to surrender their firearms in the next 30 days.

On Tuesday, the Honolulu Star Advisor reported the department’s new chief of police, Susan Ballard, would not mandate state-sanctioned patients relinquish their firearms while the department consults with other government agencies and scrutinizes applicable court rulings.

An analysis of the medical marijuana/gun policy comes on the heels of mounting criticism over a letter sent to patients on Nov. 13.

In the letter, Honolulu’s police chief cites provisions within the state’s revised statutes.

“This letter is to inform you that under the provisions of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS), Section 134-7(a) you are disqualified from firearms ownership, possession or controlling firearms. Your medical marijuana use disqualifies you from ownership of firearms and ammunition.

HRS 134-7.3 Seizure of Firearms upon Disqualification:

If you currently own or have any firearms, you have 30 days upon receipt of this letter to voluntarily surrender your firearms, permit, and ammunition to The Honolulu Police Department (HPD) or otherwise transfer ownership.”

Michelle Yu, a department spokeswoman, explained that 30 medical marijuana cardholders had received such letters since Jan. 1, 2017, according to PoliceOne.com

On hold, for now, the HPD was forced to reassess their policy once the Honolulu Star Advisor broke the story on Nov. 28. While this is temporarily good news for fans of the Second Amendment, the Honolulu Police Department said it will continue to “deny new firearms permits to applicants with medical marijuana cards.”
Peace baron!

It's interesting that NO firearms were collected from the bank executives that caused the banking failure and needed almost a trillion dollars...

...or the people who ordered the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments...

...or (insert atrocity by filthy rich select few here)...

As usual, it's WHICH federal law they feel shouldn't be broken...

:thinker:

Peace.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Just another fascist cop worried that they won't be able to go out and bust stoner's asses for fun anymore. He wants MJ use (rec and medical) on your driver's license....I wonder how he sounds if he says "show me your papers!". FFS. There are so many things wrong with that idea....but I will throw one out at you....HIPPA and state level implementations of HIPPA type protections?

And I wonder what Chief Bryson thinks about requiring use of benzo's, opiods, lyrica and other anti-seizure medications, etc to be reflected on your driver's license. WTF, let's have your IQ on there also...never can tell when someone is too stupid to be allowed to drive. It just goes on and on. sigh

Fuck this small town cop.




Delaware Officials Eye Gun Ban for Cannabis Consumers

DOVER, Del. (AP) — As lawmakers consider whether to legalize recreational marijuana use, some law enforcement officials are suggesting new steps to ensure that cannabis users in Delaware are prohibited from buying guns.


William Bryson, police chief for the town of Camden and chairman of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council, told a state task force studying legalization issues Wednesday that marijuana users should be required to have an endorsement or certification on their driver’s licenses indicating that they consume cannabis.

Bryson said the proposal would help ensure that users of marijuana, whether for medical or recreational purposes, are in compliance with federal law, which prohibits marijuana users from owning guns.


RELATED STORY
Did Honolulu Police Break Law With ‘Surrender Your Guns’ Letter?

“It would make sure that we are doing everything we can to ensure that prohibited people are not buying firearms in Delaware,” he explained after the meeting.

A person who does not disclose on the background check form that she uses marijuana could be charged with a felony.
Bryson noted that the federal background check form for gun purchases requires applicants to state whether they unlawfully use marijuana. It also warns them that marijuana use remains unlawful under federal law, regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized by a state.

As a result, a person who does not disclose on the background check form that she uses marijuana could be charged with a felony. On the other hand, an affirmative answer regarding marijuana use — or showing a gun store clerk a driver’s license identifying the person as a marijuana user — would likely result in a person failing the background check.

“Anything we can do to keep the persons that are prohibited from getting the firearms I think is a positive step,” Bryson said of his proposal, which he said arose from “brainstorming” with other police chiefs.


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Meanwhile, other opponents of legalization told the task force that legalization would result in more impaired drivers and more deaths on Delaware’s roads. Legalization also could hamper the ability of police to determine after a traffic stop whether a driver might illegally be carrying drugs or guns, they said.

“If we have the odor of marijuana, it furthers our investigations,” said Lt. Tom Brackin, chairman of the Delaware State Troopers Association.

Brackin also warned that legalization would increase the risk of officers being injured or killed by impaired drivers while conducting traffic stops.

Opponents also noted that determining whether a driver is impaired by marijuana based on blood tests can be problematic because arbitrary legal limits are not supported by science.

Critics of legalization also say relaxing marijuana laws sends the wrong message to children that drug use is OK.


RELATED STORY
Washington Sees Declines in Teen Use, Treatment Admissions Since Legalization

Bryson noted that juvenile arrests for marijuana possession in Delaware have more than quadrupled since lawmakers decriminalized possession by adults of an ounce or less of cannabis for personal use in 2015.

“They think it’s fine for them to use it somehow, that’s the message they’ve gotten,” Bryson said.

Kate Bell, legislative counsel for the Marijuana Policy Project, countered that youth use of marijuana has not increased in states that have legalized cannabis.

The task force is scheduled to meet again Jan. 4 before finalizing its report and recommendations by the end of February.
 

MistVape

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
how about concealed carry permits now will allow those people to carry their weapon in any state. Does that mean that a MM card from one state will now be recognized nationally? Probably not, interesting, have you every heard of death by marijuana?
 

momofthegoons

Vapor Accessory Addict
Staff member
And I wonder what Chief Bryson thinks about requiring use of benzo's, opiods, lyrica and other anti-seizure medications, etc to be reflected on your driver's license.
That is right where I went when reading your post.... wtf? I am so damn sick of cannabis being demonized as a 'drug' and as something that impairs you to the same extent as opiods, heroin and alcohol. And I'm tired of being treated like a criminal that's 'getting away with using a drug' instead of a patient using medicine. Between this and the way the politicians are handling the legalization process..... :rant:

Does that mean that a MM card from one state will now be recognized nationally? Probably not, interesting
That's the old double standard at it's finest showing itself. :twocents:

have you every heard of death by marijuana?
Nope. Not one. They tried to pull off a scam about that recently saying that a baby had died from an overdoes... but it was debunked and the og doctors said they had never implied that in their research.

Can we say the same about alcohol? Opioids? Cocaine? Heroin? Tylenol? Shit... even nicotine can kill you if you take the right combination of patches and gum together. :hmm:
 

MistVape

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Someone I know worked at a company with lots of labs and research stuff. They were cleaning out a lab and found a bottle of nicotine. They told me they rubbed a bit on the ear of a rabbit and the poor bunny died. Yeah nicotine is really toxic. And caffeine in its pure form has a really scary MSDS, neurotoxic nasty. Crap I need another cup of coffee though, all things in moderation but I did give up nicotine and I am looking for what a moderate amount of cannabis is. One of the few items where I find the more the merrier.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
“It is beyond dispute that illegal drug users, including marijuana users, are likely as a consequence of that use to experience altered or impaired mental states that affect their judgment and that can lead to irrational or unpredictable behavior,” the court said."

Sheeeeit....show me a drunk and I will show you irrational or unpredictable behavior. Show me a pharma narc addict and I will show you irrational or unpredictable behavior. In a number of cases based on unique individuals, show me somebody who is on antidepressants and I will show you the potential for irrational or unpredictable behavior.

MMJ users...they most likely will recline on the couch with some Doritos and a good movie. LOL

This is a huge issue and I think the courts...especially the reliably far left 9th Circuit Court of Appeals are being WAY too cavalier in dismissing an enumerated constitutional right and giving way too much deference to legislation and bureaucratic regulations.



Cops told medical pot users to turn in their guns. Here's why they changed their minds

The Honolulu Police Department has been sending letters out to medical marijuana users this year to tell them that they “have 30 days upon receipt of this letter to voluntarily surrender your firearms.”

That includes a letter dated Nov. 13, signed by police chief Susan Ballard.

“Your medical marijuana use disqualifies you from ownership of firearms and ammunition,” the letter read, according to the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

Now, that policy is no more, Ballard said in a news release on Tuesday.

Instead, the police chief said her department wants to look over court rulings and talk with others in government to determine the best next steps, according to the Honolulu Civil Beat.

“This is a new area of concern for cities across the country, and we in Honolulu want to develop a policy that’s legally sound and serves our community,” Ballard said Tuesday, as reported by the Associated Press. “Formulating the policy will take time, but we want to do it right.”

According to the Civil Beat, 30 medical pot users received letters this year from the city telling them to turn in their guns, while the city of Honolulu denied gun permits for 67 users of medical pot from 2013 to 2016.

In 2011, the ATF wrote an “open letter to all federal firearms licensees” that said “any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana … is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition.”

Hawaii requires all medical marijuana users to register in a state-run patient registry — and is the first state to make gun owners register all their weapons with the county police chief, according to Guns.com.

Michelle Yu, a spokeswoman for the HPD, told the Civil Beat that the list of registered medical marijuana users in Hawaii has been open to police since 2016, while a spokeswoman for the state’s Department of Health said police could see that list since 2000.

And Hawaii isn’t the only state where the intersection of gun ownership and medical marijuana use has become an issue.

In Pennsylvania, state police told Lehigh Valley Live that using medical marijuana automatically disqualifies someone in the background check process from buying a gun.

That lines up with a 2016 ruling from the 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals that said it isn’t an infringement of someone’s Second Amendment rights to ban them from buying a gun if they use weed.

“It is beyond dispute that illegal drug users, including marijuana users, are likely as a consequence of that use to experience altered or impaired mental states that affect their judgment and that can lead to irrational or unpredictable behavior,” the court said.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the PA State Police don't care if you are a narc'd out alcoholic with untreated PSTD and still think you are in Afganistan...you are fine to own a gun.

What BS. The more I see our various levels of government at work, the more contempt I have towards them all.


Uh oh. PA wants medical marijuana users to “dispose” of their guns


It’s a new year and medical marijuana is finding its way into the Keystone State. That’s not particularly remarkable since it’s a trend which has taken root in plenty of states around the nation. But Pennsylvania gun owners are now facing the same conundrum threatening to plague their fellow Second Amendment enthusiasts in other states where either medical or recreational pot has been legalized. The Pennsylvania State Police are telling everyone with both a firearm and a medical marijuana card to prepare to find a way to “dispose” of their guns. (CBS Pittsburgh)

See Also: “God help us”: Mullahs stage pro-regime rallies to fend off dissent

Pennsylvania State Police officials are stirring up protest among Pennsylvania gun-owners who are also potential medical marijuana patients.

“It disturbs me greatly to see the Pennsylvania State Police put on their website references to federal law while ignoring the fact that it is legal under Pennsylvania law,” says Patrick Nightingale of Greenfield.

Nightingale is a gun owner, a criminal defense attorney, and a recent applicant for a medical marijuana card.

What disturbs him is a State Police statement on their website, citing federal law, telling medical marijuana card holders, “It is unlawful for you to keep possession of any firearms which you owned or had in your possession prior to obtaining a medical marijuana card, and you should consult an attorney about the best way to dispose of your firearms.”

Rather than waiting for some sort of pronouncement from either the Governor or the Justice Department in Washington, the state troopers have posted a warning to gun owners who are seeking medical marijuana cards. That seems like an unusual step, particularly since neither Governor Wolf nor the state’s Attorney General have weighed in on the question yet.


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So here’s the first question to tackle. Are the state police going to be enforcing state law or federal law when the two are in direct conflict? It’s true that the cops aren’t supposed to ignore violations of the law whenever they see it, but usually, a federal violation either lines up with a matching state law or falls under an area where the state’s code is silent. As we’ve seen in other states already, this marijuana legalization question is something of a unique beast.

There’s also a common sense angle to this. It’s not illegal for adults to continue to own a firearm if they possess or drink alcohol, providing they’re not going out and engaging in drunken mayhem and violence as a result. Why would the state treat marijuana any differently if it’s been reclassified along the same lines as booze? Granted, that applies mostly to the states with recreational pot use, but we could apply the same question to prescription medicines. If your doctor prescribes some sort of opioid for you, you clearly shouldn’t be either driving your car or firing your weapons while under the influence. But simply having the drugs in your possession legally doesn’t strip you of your Second Amendment rights. If marijuana is now a “prescription drug” under Pennsylvania law, confiscating guns seems to be a bit of a stretch, doesn’t it?

While we probably don’t need to drop yet another hot potato in the Supreme Court’s lap right now, it seems that they’re going to have to chime in on this one sooner or later. The court has been reluctant to take a stand on Second Amendment rights since Heller, but this is a state vs federal conflict that’s crying out for a definitive resolution.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member


Medical marijuana program conflicts with federal gun laws


By Associated Press January 8 at 12:49 PM
BALTIMORE — A person who receives treatment through Maryland’s new medical marijuana program may have to surrender his or her right to own a gun.

The Baltimore Sun reported Monday that concerns are growing over how federal gun laws will impact people who use medicinal marijuana.

Marijuana is still illegal under federal law. Authorities have made it clear to gun dealers that they shouldn’t sell to people who use marijuana medically.

Former state Del. Mike Smigiel sponsored medical marijuana laws. The Eastern Shore Republican is also staunch advocate of gun rights. He said it is wrong for the government to force people to choose between medical help and self-defense.

The Maryland State Police oversee gun ownership in the state. They ask prospective gun buyers if they have a medical marijuana card.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
The Maryland State Police oversee gun ownership in the state. They ask prospective gun buyers if they have a medical marijuana card.
By the by, this is badly researched and worded. MD State Police are involved in Maryland's handgun regulations compliance, but has NOTHING to do with long guns. The ATF's National Instant Crime Check system and its questionnaire that you need to fill out before transfer of a long gun do indeed have questions about drug use and in particular MJ.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member


Some patients will face a choice: medical marijuana or their gun


Now that medical marijuana is legally available in Maryland, some who want to use the drug to manage health problems face a dilemma: To get the pot, they surrender their right to own a gun.

The question arises because marijuana, even for medicinal purposes, is still illegal under federal law. Authorities have long made it clear to gun dealers that they shouldn’t sell to people who use marijuana medically, and federal law prohibits drug users from owning guns.

Former state Del. Mike Smigiel, who sponsored medical marijuana laws and is a staunch advocate of gun rights, said it was wrong for the government to force people to choose between getting medical help and being able to defend themselves.

The Eastern Shore Republican said marijuana and guns should be treated like alcohol and guns — don’t use them at the same time.

“You don’t drink when you’re using firearms,” he said. “I don’t know that it’s any different.”

The Maryland State Police, who oversee gun ownership in the state, ask prospective gun buyers if they have a medical marijuana card. By law, buyers must allow the state health department to disclose whether they have applied for a card.

Gun advocates say they have seen questions about medical marijuana appear in the application process only in recent months. State police didn’t respond to questions about the policy.

Morgan Fox, a spokesman for the Marijuana Policy Project, a national group that advocates liberalizing marijuana laws, said the organization doesn’t think medical use of the drug should be a barrier to gun ownership.

“In general, we think medical marijuana patients should have the same rights as other law-abiding Americans,” he said.

Maryland began to authorize a medical marijuana program in 2013.The first growers under the current system were licensed last year, and sales began at a small number of dispensaries in December. Marijuana is permitted for a wide range of ailments, but patients must register with the state and get a recommendation from a doctor or other medical professional.

Supplies of the drug are expected to be limited until the spring, but the guns-or-marijuana decision already has started reverberating in firearm enthusiast circles, generating a lengthy discussion on a popular gun-owners’ forum online.

“This is leading to a very dark place,” one user wrote. “Where the government can deny your right because of what prescriptions you are on.”

A leading Second Amendment group in Maryland is trying to spread the word that firearms owners will face a choice.

Mark Pennak, president of the gun-rights group Maryland Shall Issue, recently published a notice on the group’s website laying out the legal issues.

“I just want people to be aware,” Pennak, a former Justice Department lawyer, told The Baltimore Sun. “There’s so many ins and outs to gun laws, so many pitfalls and traps, this is probably one that’s easily overlooked.”

Several Baltimore-area gun store operators said they had not yet had to turn away a customer over medical marijuana usage. But Chad Fox, owner of Fox’s Firearms in Columbia, said the law is clear: Federal gun rules bar users of the drug from owning or purchasing a firearm, and a question about drug use on a form that prospective gun buyers are asked to fill out warns them that medical marijuana is no different.

“Basically, anyone that smokes marijuana has to answer yes to that question,” Fox said. “They do that, I can’t sell them a firearm.”

Federal authorities were largely content under the Obama administration to allow states to experiment with marijuana laws. But last week, the Trump administration rescinded guidance to federal prosecutors to turn a blind eye to most marijuana offenses.

Even before that change, Pennak was wary of the way federal law enforcement viewed the combination of guns and marijuana.

“The prosecutor is not your friend,” he said. “Don’t think he’s going to give you a break because you're a good guy.”

If individual gun owners are not a priority, Pennak said, gun dealers could face trouble — the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives alerted firearms dealers at least as far back as 2011 that they shouldn’t sell guns to medical marijuana users.

In 2016, a federal appeals court in California ruled in the case of a Nevada woman that possessing a medical marijuana card was grounds to deny a gun sale, even without evidence of any marijuana use. That decision doesn’t automatically apply in Maryland.

In Pennsylvania, where the state is rolling out its own medical marijuana program this year, state police issued a warning recently that cardholders are barred from gun ownership.

“It is unlawful under federal law for you to keep possession of any firearms which you owned or had in your possession prior to obtaining a medical marijuana card,” the state warns. “We recommend that you consult an attorney if you have any questions about your firearms.”

And in Hawaii, police have sent letters to medical marijuana patients who owned guns telling them they had 30 days to surrender their weapons, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported.

Pennak thinks authorities in Maryland have done too little to alert medical marijuana users about the choice they face.

“This state hasn’t been very active with putting people on notice,” he said. “I think the states really ought to be warning people ... who are about to get their medical marijuana cards that they're about to lose their rights under federal law.”
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
The 2nd amendment is a enumerated individual right guaranteed by the USA Constitution. The Controlled Substance Act is not.

Op-ed: Gun ownership may be the unifying factor between parties on marijuana legalization


By The Eugene Register-Guard Editorial Board

Via The Associated Press. The following editorial was published in the The Eugene Register-Guard, Jan. 17:

Say what you will about U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, he may have succeeded in finding common ground for conservatives and liberals where others have failed.

Sessions announced earlier this month that he is rescinding the Obama administration’s policy on marijuana, which was to take a hands-off approach toward law enforcement in states that legalized it as long as they kept it out of the hands of children, criminal gangs and people living in other states where marijuana is not legal.

Federal officials are leaving how to enforce the new policy up to the U.S. attorneys for each state, offering only the vague guidance that the attorneys should follow “well-established” principles.

Oregon U.S. Attorney Billy Williams — who could be forgiven for occasionally rethinking his career choice these days — has claimed something of a middle ground. Williams says he will target those who are exporting marijuana from Oregon to other states that have not legalized it — a no-no even under the Obama policy — and criminal organizations.

But, while the dust was still settling on Sessions’ initial announcement of a change in federal marijuana policy, another issue involving marijuana popped up: guns.

What seems to have triggered this association was the decision by Pennsylvania to begin a medical marijuana program, with the first dispensary scheduled to open next month.

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The president of the Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association promptly said that federal law prohibits marijuana users from having guns or ammunition. “They’re going to have to make a choice. They can have their guns or their marijuana, but not both,” John T. Adams told The Associated Press.

Marijuana users who are also strong gun-rights supporters were simultaneously up in arms and puzzled. “I don’t know of any time anyone’s been using marijuana and committing acts of violence with a gun,” one Pennsylvanian said. “Most of the time they just sit on their couch and eat pizza.”

Sessions’ war on marijuana — a throwback to the days of “Reefer Madness!” — is in and of itself puzzling. Although more scientific research on marijuana is needed — federal laws currently restrict this — the opioid epidemic and related increase in heroin usage are of far greater concern nationally.

Also puzzling is the National Rifle Association’s silence on the subject of gun owners’ rights. This is an organization that has been unwilling to brook any discussion of laws aimed at decreasing mass shootings in the U.S. if they involved limitations on gun ownership.

If the NRA is willing to tacitly concede that it is all right to ban marijuana users from owning and bearing arms, then surely there is good cause to look into ways to restrict gun ownership among people who pose a far greater risk, such as those on no-fly lists or suffering from a severe mental illness that impairs their judgment. Tackling these issues would put Sessions squarely in line with the majority of Americans. Guns and drugs are two of the most controversial topics in America today. Sessions is doing nothing to work toward a sensible policy for either.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Once again, enumerated individual right incorporated into the Constitution of the United States of America via the Bill of Rights....and listed as #2 of 10 in the BoR's.....versus regulatory action (actually refusal to take regulatory action) by the DEA. So fucked up.

Marijuana laws and gun ownership


By David Keene - The Washington Times - Wednesday, February 7, 2018
ANALYSIS/OPINION:

Advocates for and against the legalization of marijuana for recreational use have been sparring for decades in part at least because there are merits on both sides of the argument, but the same cannot be said about whether doctors should be free to prescribe marijuana for medical purposes.

Some states like California and Colorado have legalized the use of the drug for recreational as well as medical, but 30 other states have legalized it for medical use only. The Drug Enforcement Administration has, however, thus far refused to de-list marijuana as a Schedule I drug, which means that people in states where it is legal to get a prescription to use it as a pain killer are criminals in the eyes of the feds.

The federal government classified marijuana as a Schedule I drug nearly 50 years ago, classifying it as more dangerous than other controlled substances such as morphine, OxyContin and Vicodin. These are Schedule II drugs and can be legally prescribed by a physician. The DEA has the authority to reclassify marijuana by regulation, but has yet to do so, prompting some in Congress to support legislation that will reclassify it so that it too can be prescribed.

The Schedule I classification has caused real problems for gun owners in states that have legalized its use for medical purposes because the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives defines anyone with a medical marijuana prescription as an admitted drug user prohibited by definition from owning, possessing or using a firearm. In some states federal law enforcement officers have threatened to go after either gun owners with a prescription or firearms dealers or private sellers who dare to sell them guns.

The late Lyn Nofziger, one of President Ronald Reagan’s closest aides, argued for the legalization of medical marijuana when he and his family discovered that it was the only thing that seemed to ease the suffering of his cancer-stricken daughter. He joined others on the right and left as well as medical experts urging the states and the federal government to allow physicians to prescribe marijuana for patients who could benefit from its use, believing that like morphine and other controlled substances marijuana should be available by prescription to those who might benefit from its use.

The refusal of the federal government to accede to the judgment of the states on the issue has created problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of gun owners who are being forced to either trade their Second Amendment rights for a chance to live pain-free or risk prosecution and imprisonment.

A Nevada woman seeking to buy a gun from a Carson City retailer in 2011 was turned down because the gun store’s owner knew she had recently received a medical marijuana prescription and had days earlier received a ATF notice warning that licensed dealers “may not transfer firearms or ammunition to” holders of medical marijuana prescriptions. She went to court, but was finally told that as long as the federal government lists marijuana use in any form as a dangerous drug, those using it can be classified as “prohibited persons” with no Second Amendment right to buy or possess a firearm.

Last year, the Honolulu police sent every registered gun owner in the city who had been given a marijuana prescription notice that they would have to surrender their guns and ammunition to the police within 30 days. The notice was later rescinded, but was a stark reminder that gun owners with a marijuana prescription are truly at risk.

State law enforcement officials are in a quandary as to which laws to enforce and as a result no one knows what to expect. In Oregon, a sheriff denied several concealed carry applications because he believed possession of a medical marijuana card was an admission of illegal drug use, while an Arizona gun owner who asked the Phoenix police if she had a problem because she has a medical marijuana prescription was told she was fine as long as she doesn’t run into a “federal” officer or get caught on federal land with both a gun and a prescription card.

Since gun purchasers must sign a form swearing they are not habitual drug users, a holder of a marijuana prescription cannot both answer the question honestly and buy a firearm today from a gun dealer anywhere in the country.

Trading a constitutional right for pain relief is a choice no one should have to make.
 

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