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Vape Saionara - SAI

Shredder

Dogs like me
Anyone use a saionara top air flow atomizer? Also known as a sai.

I've heard good things about their bucket system. They use a ti or a quartz bucket to hold and vape concentrates. They also have a impressive line up of other coil choices.

I'm new to this but as I understand you need a top air flow atomizer to use a bucket. They do make a non top flow atomizer as well.

I have been using more rosin than herb lately, so I thought I'd give the saionara a go. I ordered one from piu. It comes with a box mod and a ti bucket, but you can order each part separate from piu. I also ordered a quartz bucket, and wanted to order some ceramic donut coils as well ,but they're out ATM.

With the bucket I'm hoping it runs, at least, somewhat like a real nail.

The box mod is a small one battery that apparently runs this atomizer. If I like it, ill most likely go with a 2-3 battery box mod. Although based on my pen experience I'm still skeptical, but willing to give it a try. The only atomizer I use now is a ceramic donut on a evolve plus. It works all right, but I'm hoping for better.
 

Kurtdigglur

Gardening Grampa
Anyone use a saionara top air flow atomizer? Also known as a sai.

I've heard good things about their bucket system. They use a ti or a quartz bucket to hold and vape concentrates. They also have a impressive line up of other coil choices.

I'm new to this but as I understand you need a top air flow atomizer to use a bucket. They do make a non top flow atomizer as well.

I have been using more rosin than herb lately, so I thought I'd give the saionara a go. I ordered one from piu. It comes with a box mod and a ti bucket, but you can order each part separate from piu. I also ordered a quartz bucket, and wanted to order some ceramic donut coils as well ,but they're out ATM.

With the bucket I'm hoping it runs, at least, somewhat like a real nail.

The box mod is a small one battery that apparently runs this atomizer. If I like it, ill most likely go with a 2-3 battery box mod. Although based on my pen experience I'm still skeptical, but willing to give it a try. The only atomizer I use now is a ceramic donut on a evolve plus. It works all right, but I'm hoping for better.
I had one last summer and really enjoyed it. I plan on getting another one with the ti bucket. I warn You have to be careful with those, I was able to put myself to sleep with ease and that is usually hard to do. Caught myself napping in the outside swing in the middle of the afternoon. It’s really easy to over consume when your getting dab like hits froma small vape.
 

Shredder

Dogs like me
I had one last summer and really enjoyed it. I plan on getting another one with the ti bucket. I warn You have to be careful with those, I was able to put myself to sleep with ease and that is usually hard to do. Caught myself napping in the outside swing in the middle of the afternoon. It’s really easy to over consume when your getting dab like hits froma small vape.

I have friends with box mods running yocan atomizers, so I have a good idea on how they work. I'm just hoping it tastes better. The metal coils on their vapes bother me. They're no slouches on clouds tho. I've read good things about the bucket system, so I'll try it out. If nothing else and i dont like the buckets, I'll run the ceramic donuts in it.
 

Madri-Gal

Well-Known Member
I have friends with box mods running yocan atomizers, so I have a good idea on how they work. I'm just hoping it tastes better. The metal coils on their vapes bother me. They're no slouches on clouds tho. I've read good things about the bucket system, so I'll try it out. If nothing else and i dont like the buckets, I'll run the ceramic
donut in it.
@Shredder , You'll use the cramic donut in the Sao, or the Yocan? I haven't tried the Sai yet. I'm always late to the party. Do you recommend?
 

Killick

Well-Known Member
I have a Saionara atomizer. For some reason I haven't had much success with the Sai Donut coils. They work OK for 2 or 3 runs, then the Aspire NX75 no longer detects them as a coil. I can swap to one of the other Kanthal coils but find they taste a little metallic for me. It's been sitting on my desk, unused, for months. I'm sure it's user error as it came highly recommended, and maybe some day I'll figure it out.
 

Shredder

Dogs like me

I ordered the sai and box mod yesterday. And I've had the yocan donut atomizers on my evolve plus for a while. But I don't use it a lot.

So far I've been mostly disappointed in pen vapes. I like the idea and convenience, but to date havnt found one i really really like. Plus idk a lot about them.

The evolve with a donut is ok, but not very big clouds or anything like that. I have two atomizers for it and have noticed one works better than the other. To get big clouds with the evolve you need different coils. But with metal coils, I always get an off taste.

I have a Saionara atomizer. For some reason I haven't had much success with the Sai Donut coils. They work OK for 2 or 3 runs, then the Aspire NX75 no longer detects them as a coil. I can swap to one of the other Kanthal coils but find they taste a little metallic for me. It's been sitting on my desk, unused, for months. I'm sure it's user error as it came highly recommended, and maybe some day I'll figure it out.

The new sai taf (top air flow) are needed to use their new bucket system. I think there is a way to retrofit the old style tho. Those buckets are what intrigues me. I wish I had one to try first but I took a chance, and just went with what I read.

I don't know enough about these things to give anyone advice, but could it be the battery itself? The donuts themselves are fairly cheap, and cheaper in 5 packs, if you wanted to try more in it.

I agree with you on the metal taste, a huge downside for me. I'm hoping the quartz (and ti) bucket will suit me. If this doesn't work out for me maybe we can get ours together as book ends, lol.
 
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Madri-Gal

Well-Known Member
I ordered the sai and box mod yesterday. And I've had the yocan donut atomizers on my evolve plus for a while. But I don't use it a lot.

So far I've been mostly disappointed in pen vapes. I like the idea and convenience, but to date havnt found one i really really like. Plus idk a lot about them.

The evolve with a donut is ok, but not very big clouds or anything like that. I have two atomizers for it and have noticed one works better than the other. To get big clouds with the evolve you need different coils. But with metal coils, I always get an off taste.



The new sai taf (top air flow) are needed to use their new bucket system. I think there is a way to retrofit the old style tho. Those buckets are what intrigues me. I wish I had one to try first but I took a chance, and just went with what I read.

I don't know enough about these things to give anyone advice, but could it be the battery itself? The donuts themselves are fairly cheap, and cheaper in 5 packs, if you wanted to try more in it.

I agree with you on the metal taste, a huge downside for me. I'm hoping the quartz (and ti) bucket will suit me. If this doesn't work out for me maybe we can get ours together as book ends, lol.
Thank you, @Shredder. I bought a few pens last year, to use with a GRAV helix top, then put them away. I keep hearing about the Sai, but maybe I should try different coils. It's handy to know people in the know. I'll watch this space to see if I can learn anything.
 

Disrupt

Former member
They work OK for 2 or 3 runs, then the Aspire NX75 no longer detects them as a coil.

Do they still work in power mode, or do they read infinite resistance?

I ordered the sai and box mod yesterday.

Curious about your impressions. Also never liked pen vapes. Played around with dab builds in e-cig atomizers for years, including bucket designs. The problem could be that quartz or ceramic buckets, or even ceramic donuts to a lesser degree, simply don't get hot enough to vape a dab quickly. You get the flavorful terpenes and some of the cannabinoids, then your concentrate just cooks. The Ti bucket might conduct heat better.

Using the AVS Molecule now with DIY stainless steel flattened coils. It looks like AVS is collaborating with HVT. Expect more great atomizers.:popcorn:
 
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Shredder

Dogs like me
Do they still work in power mode, or do they read infinite resistance?



Curious about your impressions. Also never liked pen vapes. Played around with dab builds in e-cig atomizers for years, including bucket designs. The problem could be that quartz or ceramic buckets, or even ceramic donuts to a lesser degree, simply don't get hot enough to vape a dab quickly. You get the flavorful terpenes and some of the cannabinoids, then your concentrate just cooks. The Ti bucket might conduct heat better.

Using the AVS Molecule now with DIY stainless steel flattened coils. It looks like AVS is collaborating with HVT. Expect more great atomizers.:popcorn:

To be honest part of the problem is me. I'm sensitive to the metal used in coils, and I don't like hot dabs. Probably due to my asthma. My dnail sic dish set to low temps is perfect for me. To replicate that in a pen has not happened to me yet. So far the ceramic donuts have come the closest to what I like.

Ok, whats avs molecule and hvt? I'm pretty much a complete noob with this stuff. Like no one picked up on that, lol.
 

Killick

Well-Known Member
@Disrupt - error message in pix.

@Shredder - this one is at least a year old, possibly more...

Ive gone through a number of donut coils. It's set at around 350f in temp mode.

Just checked website and found Top Air Flow, which does look really interesting. Will look forward to reading how it performs for you.

More info here - https://humboldtvapetech.com/produc...w-titanium-bucket-coil-installed-w-two-coils/

20190219_154258.jpg
20190219_154244.jpg
20190219_154311.jpg
 

Disrupt

Former member
Ok, whats avs molecule and hvt? I'm pretty much a complete noob with this stuff. Like no one picked up on that, lol.

Humboldt Vape Tech, makers of the Sai. AVS is Advanced Vape Supply. This was, until recently, just a well-respected e-cig specialty wire company for vapers who rebuild their atomizers. Then they moved to Denver and released the Molecule RDA (rebuidable dab atomizer). This is a minimal postless deck, a quartz cup with two holes in the bottom, a flattened coil made from rebuilders' wire (quad-core fused claptons), and a top airflow cap. The coil goes into the cup, the leads go into the deck, and you load a small dab onto the coil. That's it. With shatter, works as well as best DIY efforts. Don't know about rosin. There's a thread here: AVS Molecule

HVT even sells a cup that fits the Molecule flattened coils. Expected you knew about it already.

You might be able to tolerate stainless steel in TC better then kanthal.

@Disrupt - error message in pix.

The wire probably broke. Thats happened with donuts in the past. Can you try TC or lower power?
 

Shredder

Dogs like me
Humboldt Vape Tech, makers of the Sai. AVS is Advanced Vape Supply. This was, until recently, just a well-respected e-cig specialty wire company for vapers who rebuild their atomizers. Then they moved to Denver and released the Molecule RDA (rebuidable dab atomizer). This is a minimal postless deck, a quartz cup with two holes in the bottom, a flattened coil made from rebuilders' wire (quad-core fused claptons), and a top airflow cap. The coil goes into the cup, the leads go into the deck, and you load a small dab onto the coil. That's it. With shatter, works as well as best DIY efforts. Don't know about rosin. There's a thread here: AVS Molecule

HVT even sells a cup that fits the Molecule flattened coils. Expected you knew about it already.

You might be able to tolerate stainless steel in TC better then kanthal.



The wire probably broke. Thats happened with donuts in the past. Can you try TC or lower power?

Thanks your post is very helpful.
 

Killick

Well-Known Member
The wire probably broke. Thats happened with donuts in the past. Can you try TC or lower power?

What might cause the wire to break? Is there a way to check, or repair, a break?

There is a choice between Wattage and Temp mode. Temp is where the instructions said to run it. I haven't used wattage mode for anything. I'm out of donut coils tho, and with them not lasting more than a session or two I'm unlikely to get more. Maybe the TAF will be a better fit? I'll keep watching and see how they work out in the thread. Thanks for the info :wave:
 

Disrupt

Former member
What might cause the wire to break? Is there a way to check, or repair, a break?

Too much power. Donuts typically use thin wires that sometimes snap when they get too hot. Repeated use can weaken the wire at whatever point has the highest resistance. It's less likely to happen in Temp mode, but some mods automatically switch to Wattage mode if Temp is failing.

You could check with an Ohmmeter, but a Temp mod must check resistance. Wattage mode might still show you the resistance on the display. If the wire's broken, the resistance will read maximum, for example, 999 Ohms. Doubt a donut could be repaired, as the break would be in the part of the wire that's encapsulated by ceramic. Doubt top airflow will help.

If you try donuts again, be sure the wattage is set in the range specified by the donut supplier. This is important even in Temp mode. In Temp mode, the mod supplies whatever wattage is set. When it calculates that the specified temperature has been reached, it switches off for a second or two and then cycles back on. At high wattage, the donut/wire will reach the specified temperature more quickly - charting temperature vs. time would give you a steeper curve. That stresses the wire more than lower wattage would. (Some mods have advanced settings/programs that modify how much power is supplied.)

Personally, with e-cig type atomizers and metal coils, run in Wattage mode set so that the coil just begins to glow before the mod reaches its time limit. In the Molecule (or DIY), that vapes the entire dab in one hit. Afterward, with metal coils, you can dry burn to vaporize whatever is left, cleaning the coil. (DO NOT attempt dry burning a donut - that will snap the wire for sure.)
 
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Killick

Well-Known Member
@Disrupt thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I'll order another box of donuts and give it another shot. The unit is highly regarded so it's user error that's causing issues. Maybe one more box of coils will get it dialed in...
 

Shredder

Dogs like me
@Disrupt thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I'll order another box of donuts and give it another shot. The unit is highly regarded so it's user error that's causing issues. Maybe one more box of coils will get it dialed in...

That's the spirit ! Remember its all in the name of science.

Still no status on my saionara. Monday piu warehouse was down for president day. I thinking it gets shipped today.

Edit : yay! Shipped!
 
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Shredder

Dogs like me
I hope you don't mind a double post Mom, just wanted to report my sai came today. Perhaps you can merge the posts?

I already had an extra battery ready and charged. After a hour or so to let it come to room temp, I cleaned it, and did my best to figure it out. I had been reading guides for it online while it shipped and the guides for the istick pico 75w box mod that the sai came with.

But it was a little different having it in my hand. The eleaf instruction book is very brief and doesn't explain much for a noob like me. When I thought it was set at 26 watts and in tc mode set at 410degrees F. Turns out apparently it wasn't locked and it was really set to 75w. I pulsed the fire button for a second and it instantly got hot. Then I added rice grain size piece of rosin put the cap on and gave it a 2 second pulse while I inhaled and got a giant hit. I didn't really cough, but I bet my eyes were bulging, vapor coming from my ears, lol.

With the ti bucket on it it's supposed to take a few seconds to get to temp, so I realized something was up. Back to the shitty little eleaf manual. I finally got the watts back to 26w and locked it in, and tried again. The hit was pretty rough. I took the cap off and seen the rosin had splattered all over, and what remained in the ti bucket was looking burnt. Lucky I didn't ruin the coil.

I took the ti bucket off and replaced it with the quartz bucket. I just took one hit, because I was pretty much already toasted and my throat was raw from the first hot hit. The quartz bucket hit seemed very nice, deep and rich full of terpenes, but I'll reserve judgement until I can test it further.

Now an hour later, and after only three or four real hits, I'm still really buzzed, but at some point I'll try again tonight, and then of course tomorrow. I'm thinking it will be fine, but I'll have to be careful not to get so buzzed. Right now I'd say the quartz bucket tastes great, and I'll have to retry the ti bucket, and a ceramic donut tomorrow before I can really tell much more.
 

Shredder

Dogs like me
Ok, here is my impressions after using the sai with both the ti bucket and the quartz bucket for a week almost exclusively. ( for science)

They both work. It took me a while but I settled with 40w for both, and 420F on tc for the ti bucket and 450F for the quartz bucket. At these settings I did not hit the vape until the screen showed 300F. (7-9 seconds?) Hitting before that will make wispy hits. Since my mod has a ten second shut off, I pulsed the fire button before i hit it to keep it hot throughout a hit. It also helps to hold the vape level when using. The heat is from a wire imbedded in the ceramic donut heater around the outside edge, so if it's tilted it doesn't make good contact with heat for the hit.

Truthfully neither bucket tasted all that great. The ti bucket gave me maybe 1-2 good tasting hits, per load. After that the taste turned and I start getting that ti taste. It was however the easiest to clean, and if you don't have a problem with metal coils, like me, I think folks may like this bucket. It did get me very high, and I think it was efficient. I found it best to keep the loads small for a fast finish in a couple hits.

The quartz tasted slightly better, but still it didn't last. I did not get the ti taste, but it wasn't great either. And it seems when the rosin heats up it climbs the quartz bucket and eventually coats the bucket on the outside and leaks into the heater.

In short the buckets I had such hope for was disappointing. Since I didn't care for the buckets, and I don't do metal coils, that leaves me with ceramic donuts. Since my heater is a ceramic donut, try it, right? I mean wtf? However my pen, an evolve plus has a ceramic heater and it's so so. A couple nice tasting hits off a clean coil, then the reclaim roasting taste.

So after a short while I settled on 15w and 390F set on tc and locked in. To hit it I wait until it hits 300F then pulse the button to thwart the ten second shut off, then take a big hit.

OMG, a great big flavorful hit, full of rich terpenes. The taste lasted throughout the load! The temperature control keeps the load in the zone so to speak without over cooking it. (like my evolve without tc) I tried it at 390, 400, and 410F. Most I think would like it at 410F but for me it was almost too rich, so I settled at 390F and still get terpy vapor that's not so rich that it makes me cough. Pretty close to like what my dnail sic halo gives me at low temps.

Through last evening I loaded it four times with bb sized loads without cleaning. Now the next morning and still on that fourth load the taste is degrading a bit. Still head and shoulders better than the buckets or my pen vape. So I'll clean the donut coil before reloading sometime today, but I think I found something that fits my needs.

Keep in mind these are only my impressions. I have asthma, im sensitive to metal tastes, and i like low temp vaping with my herb and rosin. So your mileage may vary, don't take wooden nickels, and a stitch in time is something or other.
 
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Shredder

Dogs like me
@Shredder still enjoying your Sai?

Is this the best option for portable low temp dabs? My research seems to lead to saionara.

It's the best I've found, for me. There are a lot of coil options but I've pretty much settled on the ceramic donuts. I don't like exposed coils, and didn't care for the buckets, but I really like the donuts.

Not everyone likes the donuts although most agree they taste the best. The knocks are they need to be clean to get that great taste, and they don't provide gigantic lung buster hits, like the metal coils do.

I dirty up a coil a day using it by myself. I load it twice, then put on a clean coil. And when I have several dirty coils, I clean them. I just ordered a five pack today in fact.

Cleaning isn't terribly hard to do. I use a paper towel to wipe out a warm bowl. And my own little trick is to put a couple drops of ro water in the bowl, and boil it a few seconds. That loosens up the reclaim and makes it easier to clean with that towel. I scrunch up some towel into roughly the shape of the bowl and insert and twist it. Then I crank the temp up to 490 and heat up the donut. That dries it out and burns carbon off the donut. It gets red hot. And the donut turns white again. That's bout it. If they seem extra dirty ill soak them in warmed up iso, for a few minutes, and rinse and wipe before the water deal.

The buckets I thought I'd like I did not care for. I tasted ti in the ti bucket and the quartz bucket leaked rosin all over. I never got the taste dialed in either. Best I did was small loads killed in a couple hits. The donuts I can sip on, maintaining great taste, although a few sips and your zonked. the buckets were easy to clean tho, water and a q tip, presto, clean. I'm using 16 w in temp mode at 290F. I get vapor in four or five seconds after I hit the fire button. Less if it's warm.

I'm waiting for a sic bucket with an embedded wire heating it. First one of those out will make someone rich.
 

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