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COVID-19

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1st off just an opinion I've nothing to back this up other than a sense of it. A lot of people when they get at the level of their craft that Dr. Fauci is at, can have outside & personal factors play in their decision making. Is this taking place with Dr. Fauci dont know for sure & have no desire to spend the time it would take to be for certain either way.
Personally the big issue I see, is me not understanding the full scope of his authority.
 
This is how we got the AIDS virus in the World. It crossed over from a monkey I believe back in the 70s to a human host.

The AIDS virus most likely crossed over from great apes. (Eating, fucking, who knows? And they HATE being called monkeys.) It's how the majority of new infectious diseases begin. And yes, if we continue concentrating thousands of highly-stressed animals of various species in close quarters, we will see more. In fact, @Disrupt predicts we will see another within two years. Where's the harm in that? :wink:
 
I didn’t have to look this up. Dr Fauci is non political. He has worked under several presidents. Fauci is a physician, Immunologist and an infectious disease specialist. He’s been on the frontlines for years helping with various diseases. I remember him back during the height of the AIDS virus. He had to put up with a lot of BS back then. People labeled the AIDS virus the gay disease or a drug addict’s disease. In turn they didn’t get a vaccine because of less concern because supposably it didn’t affect everyone IMO. I won’t go on.
 
Thank you @Disrupt. I don’t know enough about it, I shouldn’t spread misinformation. I thought maybe lack of funding for AIDS? It had such a bad wrap when it first came on the medical scene. Our president at the time didn’t do much in the beginning, Reagan.
i know now there are medications to help with those affected. Has helped them live a somewhat normal life.
I’m hoping for a vaccine or a cure for those affected. Kinda off the subject - sorry.
 

@CarolKing, Oh yes, there are also fantastic Doctors of great credibility in the private sector that didnt vote for or support our present President but have opposing thoughts to that of Fauci's regarding actions & treatment of COVID.​

Two of my doctors overseas have treated literally thousands of COVID patients. Sending they claim over 95% home, with Immune System Enhancers or ISE's ( Vitamins C,D+, Zink & others) to let it run it's course while they would check in. They claim to have lost less than 1% of their patients​

I guess the point I'm making is their is reason for you & others to feel the way you do. I also have what I believe to be coherent, legit info from a source I trust. As in most cases I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.​

No one wishes this crap on any one. There will always be those that have to be careful because of preexisting conditions in flue season etc. & we need to be aware & help when we can.​

I take precautions even though I've contracted it. Disrupt has a legit worry with his parents situation.... However outside of this I do stand a bit befuddled with the level of fear I witness with healthy people
 
Thank you @Disrupt. I don’t know enough about it, I shouldn’t spread misinformation. I thought maybe lack of funding for AIDS?

No problem. Started grad school in 1986. AIDS had renewed interest in retroviruses, much as COVID has renewed interest in coronaviruses. Tying your worked to AIDS generally helped get it funded.

Pfizer declined R&D funding from Operation Warp Speed, BTW. Good read in NYT. Public and private efforts both appear to be yielding spectacular results.

About which most of us can be very hopeful (sorry anti-vaxxers) - one might even dare to think regardless of party preference. :aaaaa:If we just hold on a little longer, we'll get our lives back before long, maybe the wiser for it.


(Wait, does that mean travel? :ugh:)
 
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@CarolKing, Oh yes, there are also fantastic Doctors of great credibility in the private sector that didnt vote for or support our present President but have opposing thoughts to that of Fauci's regarding actions & treatment of COVID.​

Two of my doctors overseas have treated literally thousands of COVID patients. Sending they claim over 95% home, with Immune System Enhancers or ISE's ( Vitamins C,D+, Zink & others) to let it run it's course while they would check in. They claim to have lost less than 1% of their patients​

I guess the point I'm making is their is reason for you & others to feel the way you do. I also have what I believe to be coherent, legit info from a source I trust. As in most cases I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.​

No one wishes this crap on any one. There will always be those that have to be careful because of preexisting conditions in flue season etc. & we need to be aware & help when we can.​

I take precautions even though I've contracted it. Disrupt has a legit worry with his parents situation.... However outside of this I do stand a bit befuddled with the level of fear I witness with healthy people
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Jeff are you from another country other than America? Maybe none of my business. You mentioned doctors from overseas. Not being disrespectful.

You don’t need our advise. You have it down it sounds like. I wish you great health and a long life. I also hope you don’t have any lasting medical problems associated with Covid. Glad you have good medical professionals advising you. You have no idea who I voted for. I’m trying really hard to make my posting non political. Take good care.
 
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Oh no I'm right here in the midwest I do travel. I dont remember stating or assuming who you voted for ?

I'm gratefull that I have no lasting health issues from COVID. However it seems to be the same for well over 95% of all who contract it as stated by John Hopkins Hospital, CDC & others.
 
That’s the mystery. Why some people, though a small percentage will die from this illness? Could it be how much of the virus entered a persons body? Healthy people in their 30s and 40s have died. True most probably had underlying health problems they didn’t even know about. Nurses and doctors at hospitals are getting ill and some have died. They are part of the rising cases. We don’t want to get numb to a quarter million lives that have passed. I only know a friend of mines mom passed away from what the doctor thought was covid back in March. I personally don’t know of anyone who has died luckily. My heart goes out to those that have lost loved ones. My uncle just got over covid. He’s 90 and survived, so far. .He lives in an assisted living facility.
 
The AIDS virus most likely crossed over from great apes. (Eating, fucking, who knows? And they HATE being called monkeys.) It's how the majority of new infectious diseases begin. And yes, if we continue concentrating thousands of highly-stressed animals of various species in close quarters, we will see more. In fact, @Disrupt predicts we will see another within two years. Where's the harm in that? :wink:
Actually I do think it was monkeys from central Africa which they call bush meat and eat.

I believe this is true.

Now, a chimpanzee is an ape but I dot think they are dinner very much

My thoughts on Fauci.

He has been a valuable and calm voice of reason, in general, and I’m grateful for his service to us all.

But I do not worship at the feet of Fauci as do some. He is not the Oracle of Delphi though he has made some bold, firm oracle like pronouncements and predictions that IMO went well beyond those that could be made confidently base on the available verified facts; some of which turned out to not be the case.

I live in the Bethesda area about three miles from NIH and I know a number of folks there.

While it is indeed true that he was quite involved with AIDS, that was 40 years ago. He does indeed lead NIH’s infectious disease organization, he does so as an administrator and at 78 yo, he has not done clinical research in a very long time. There are other, younger, scientists and doctors Engaged in lab And clinical research who are in fact more on the cutting edge of the science of COVID, than he.

His contributions have been very, very valuable, but mostly as a spokesperson.

And his sometimes very broad And overreaching pronouncements are not, in fact, the hand of god writing on the wall.

Mod note: posts merged
 
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Ah, @Baron23, once bitten... From Wikipedia:
Scientists generally accept that the known strains (or groups) of HIV-1 are most closely related to the simian immunodeficiency viruses (SIVs) endemic in wild ape populations of West Central African forests.[4][5] In particular, each of the known HIV-1 strains is either closely related to the SIV that infects the chimpanzee subspecies Pan troglodytes troglodytes (SIVcpz) or closely related to the SIV that infects western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla), called SIVgor.[6][7][8][9][10][11] The pandemic HIV-1 strain (group M or Main) and a rare strain found only in a few Cameroonian people (group N) are clearly derived from SIVcpz strains endemic in Pan troglodytes troglodytes chimpanzee populations living in Cameroon.[6]... Using HIV-1 sequences preserved in human biological samples along with estimates of viral mutation rates, scientists calculate that the jump from chimpanzee to human probably happened during the late 19th or early 20th century, a time of rapid urbanisation and colonisation in equatorial Africa. Exactly when the zoonosis occurred is not known...
 
An example of how new research can change scientific opinion - that viral mutation early in the pandemic may have been more important than once thought.

Evaluating the effects of SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutation D614G on transmissibility and pathogenicity

Global dispersal and increasing frequency of the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein variant D614G are suggestive of a selective advantage but may also be due to a random founder effect. We investigate the hypothesis for positive selection of Spike D614G in the United Kingdom using more than 25,000 whole genome SARS-CoV-2 sequences. Despite the availability of a large data set, well represented by both Spike 614 variants, not all approaches showed a conclusive signal of positive selection. Population genetic analysis indicates that 614G increases in frequency relative to 614D in a manner consistent with a selective advantage. We do not find any indication that patients infected with the Spike 614G variant have higher COVID-19 mortality or clinical severity, but 614G is associated with higher viral load and younger age of patients. Significant differences in growth and size of 614G phylogenetic clusters indicate a need for continued study of this variant.
 

Coronavirus cases in NYC linked to Tulum festival that became superspreader event: report

Health official says up to 70% of positive COVID tests were direct result of Art With Me festival​


A Burning Man-like beach festival in Mexico became a hot spot for COVID-19 when a number of attendees contracted the virus and appeared to have carried it back with them to the U.S., a new report suggests.


Art With Me, a four-day art and music festival in Tulum, Mexico, which is now being referred to as a superspreader event, was held from Nov. 11 to Nov. 15. Attendees told the Daily Beast there was minimal social distancing and hardly any mask-wearing.

Checkmate Health Strategies, a private COVID testing company, has since said the majority of positive COVID tests administered in the past few weeks were from individuals who went to the Art With Me festival or those who came in contact with someone in attendance, the company told the outlet.

“I would say that 60-70 percent of my positives in the last couple weeks in New York City have been a direct result of either people coming back from Art With Me, or who have been directly exposed to someone who attended Art With Me. And I test in Miami as well, and my testers there tell me that a lot of their positives are people coming back from Art With Me,” Checkmate Health Strategies founder Eleonora Walczak told the Daily Beast.

The news comes as the CDC strongly urges against U.S. travel to Mexico, listing it at a level 4, or “very high” risk category — its highest level.

A number of partygoers in attendance at an art festival in Tulum last month reportedly contracted COVID.

A number of partygoers in attendance at an art festival in Tulum last month reportedly contracted COVID. (Riviera Maya Destination Marketing Office)

The World Health Organization on Nov. 30 deemed Mexico to be in “bad shape” following an uptick in deaths the week before, advising the country to take caution. As of Dec. 1, Mexico’s death toll surged to 105,940, the fourth-highest number in the world, with 1,113,543 confirmed cases of the new coronavirus.

“All I will say is that there was not one mask and I got more sick than I ever did in my entire life after that party,” one woman told the Daily Beast.

Event organizers allegedly issued guidelines to curb the spread; however, the individual who was reported to have contracted the virus after attending the festival said organizers served finger food with guests serving themselves.

Art With Me did not immediately return a Fox News request for comment
 
The AIDS virus most likely crossed over from great apes. (Eating, fucking, who knows? And they HATE being called monkeys.) It's how the majority of new infectious diseases begin. And yes, if we continue concentrating thousands of highly-stressed animals of various species in close quarters, we will see more. In fact, @Disrupt predicts we will see another within two years. Where's the harm in that? :wink:
A book I read decade’s ago: “hot zone” talked about the first case in the USA! (Not fact checked however decent read)
 
What a mess.....I believe, but am not certain, that the objection to the data used was not just that it was national and not local, but rather that the national CDC data that was used does not discriminate between results of indoor dining versus outdoor dining with provisions complying with LA county's previous guidance.

What a mess

California Restaurant Association CEO 'hopeful' coronavirus outdoor dining ban will be lifted by courts

Judge ruled last week that Los Angeles County must provide medical evidence for ban on patio dining​

California public health officials are closing restaurants without substantial scientific evidence, California Restaurant Association CEO Jot Condie said on Tuesday.

“For nine months now, we’ve listened to our public health officials tell us that these shutdown orders are based on or they are guided by evidence and science, and we have an L.A. health department who has essentially targeted the restaurant industry as if we are responsible for the latest outbreak in the pandemic when the evidence proves otherwise,” Condie told "Fox & Friends."

Condie will appear in court for a third time on Tuesday and expressed optimism that a judge will rule against Los Angeles County on its patio dining ban. Last week, a California judge ordered health officials in Los Angeles to show scientific evidence to justify the recently enacted three-week ban on dine-in service.

“[The judge] basically said L.A. County has a lot of holes in their justification in order for them to come back and prove that it is justified ... So we're hopeful," Condie said.

FIGHT TO HALT LA DINE-IN BAN ISN'T OVER, RESTAURATEURS VOW

The decision came a week after a judge denied the California Restaurant Association's request to block the measure until evidence was provided that showed outdoor dining at restaurants posed a risk to the public.

"We were successful in Los Angeles Superior Court today, where the judge agreed that LA County must show cause for its order to ban outdoor dining," the California Restaurant Association tweeted on Wednesday.

The CRA has fought against the measure since it was enacted on Nov. 25, limiting bars and restaurants to take-out, drive-through and delivery services only.

The group had accused L.A. County of relying on a "questionable national study" rather than local data to determine that establishments -- which are already reeling from the pandemic -- should be shut down again, according to a video posted on YouTube.

Condie said the restaurants “just want to open back up.” While indoor dining is restricted due to health concerns, “outdoor dining is their only lifeline” that they have to get through the pandemic.

“That has sort of been pulled out from under them by a health department that is essentially acting on a gut reaction,” Condie said. “Last time I looked, gut reactions aren't part of a scientific method."
 
Here is another article on the subject of the above post. Yes, its LA county but the same issues and conflict are present all over our country. I thought this was a fairly balanced read but there is lots of other stuff out there presenting different POVs.

Where Is the Data to Support Closing Outdoor Dining in LA? It’s Complicated

Restaurant owners say public health officials can’t definitively link on-site dining with a rise in cases, and they’re (mostly) right — but that’s not why officials shut them down

Restaurant owners, workers, and diners have been loudly asking the same thing since last Wednesday, November 25, when the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health recommended that restaurants be closed for outdoor on-site dining: Where is the data?

Frustrated LA operators have spent nearly a year being pushed to the brink — forced to lay off staff, change concepts, amass untold debt, fight landlords, and stay safe during the largest public health crisis in recent history. Now they’ve been told that the outdoor, open-air spaces they spent thousands to build are no longer suitable for safe operation while coronavirus cases rise precipitously across the state, despite little direct data linking restaurants to the uptick. Meanwhile, owners argue, grocery stores and retail shops and outdoor gyms are allowed to remain open with capacity caps in place, as hotels and airlines continue to ferry and house travelers during the ongoing holiday season.

So where is the data, if it exists? And if it does not, then why did the LA County Department of Public Health implement a change to the latest public health order in order to prohibit outdoor dining, as directed by the county Board of Supervisors?

The answer is: It’s complicated.

Los Angeles County actually has a fairly robust contact-tracing program, especially compared to many other parts of the country, which gathers as much data as possible on an infected person’s movements and possible sources of contraction. In theory, tracers would be able to pinpoint a person’s precise moment of exposure, then track that person’s movements before and after the exposure — including at public spaces like restaurants, where other diners and staff members who may have come into contact with an infected person could then be notified. But in practice, with 10 million inhabitants, 31,000 restaurants, few mechanisms currently in place to limit individual travel, and no mandate to collect customer data at restaurants or points of retail, the real data that tracers eventually amass is much less clean.

Using what data is available, public health officials have previously said that up to 15 percent of COVID infections could be traced to “dining experiences” within greater Los Angeles over the past few months, and that restaurants as a workplace are areas of higher risk. As an industry, restaurants have been hit with the most infractions by public health inspectors in LA County, and last week Dr. Muntu Davis noted that restaurants had seen a threefold increase in outbreaks among staff over the past several weeks.

US-HEALTH-VIRUS-EPIDEMIC
Dr. Barbara Ferrer at a press conference in March Photo by ROBYN BECK/AFP via Getty Images

Daily health care publication California Healthline spoke with UCLA associate professor of community health sciences and epidemiology Shira Shafir about the limited contact tracing data that is available; Shafir says that the “data suggests that even outdoor dining may spread the virus.” County health inspectors say that even with daily check-ins, they’re hitting less than 1 percent of all restaurants countywide per week, and that of those compliance checks they have done, 19 percent of restaurants are not properly following social-distancing guidelines. “Compliance is a big issue,” Dr. Ferrer said in a public address yesterday, “but that’s not why we’ve asked restaurants to close for outdoor dining. We’ve closed them because we are asking everyone to keep their face coverings on.”

To Ferrer’s point, simply asking for causal data is missing the larger point. Contact tracing is messy, yes, and a direct link between restaurants and rising infection rates is hard to pinpoint — but that’s not why the county Board of Supervisors or the Department of Public Health shut down outdoor dining in the first place.

Simply put, county officials agreed to shut down outdoor dining because coronavirus cases and hospitalizations have been rising dramatically over several weeks, and reducing the number of places where people gather — especially unmasked — is one of the levers of power available to them. The DPH and Ferrer only acted to modify the health order and close outdoor dining because the county Board of Supervisors (who can override the DPH) set a threshold of daily cases for such an action, and LA County blew by it almost immediately. “We had no idea how quickly those numbers would be upon us,” county supervisor Janice Hahn said at a contentious Board of Supervisors meeting last week. “We thought we were weeks away.”

LA public health official Dr. Muntu Davis freely acknowledged last week that the DPH lacks “specific contact tracing showing that restaurants are driving this huge increase in cases,” but noted specifically that gatherings overall are. “We have to look at every place where we can get back some control,” Ferrer added, “partially because there has been such a steep acceleration of cases.” Since then, LA County’s COVID-19 condition has continued to worsen, leading to a modified safer-at-home order that bans all public gatherings of any kind, outside of protected religious events and protests.

Health officials admit they lack “specific contact tracing showing that restaurants are driving this huge increase in cases.”

The threat of a statewide shelter in place order from Gov. Gavin Newsom still looms. Meanwhile, the city of Pasadena — which has its own public health department — continues to allow outdoor dining at its restaurants, though a recent spate of inspections found two-thirds of restaurants not in compliance with coronavirus protocols.

As for the metrics that will be used to drive the next public health decision? Last week Supervisor Kathryn Barger put forward a motion to begin reaching out to local universities like UCLA and USC to “provide feedback and develop strategies and recommendations to guide our future decisions regarding COVID-19 response and reopening our businesses and communities,” though it’s not likely that those universities will have more restaurant-specific data than the Department of Public Health — or that anyone will any time soon, really, without a massive overhaul to the county’s tracing system. Again, it’s complicated.
 
Here is what happens if everyone is on the same page and follows what scientists, not influencers say, just about back to normal without a vaccine, luckily our gov were smart and paid the wages for people to stay at home for the lockdown to help small business stay afloat while closed. That and a doubling of welfare payments for months helped to keep our economy going.

 
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Here is what happens if everyone is on the same page and follows what scientists, not influencers say, just about back to normal without a vaccine, luckily our gov were smart and paid the wages for people to stay at home for the lockdown to help small business stay afloat while closed. That and a doubling of welfare payments for months helped to keep our economy going.


Science over uneducated conspiracies ... Who'da thunk it.....
 
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