Baron23
Well-Known Member
Can you explain this in more detail for a complete novice, please?
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Grow Cultivation Q and A
- Thread starter Kellya86
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- cultivation growing
Can you explain this in more detail for a complete novice, please?
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Hi @Baron23, sure thing bud.
Firstly this is an indoor grow technique and not something I'd do if growing out side.
Indoors I'm looking to get as much light to the bud as possible so a nice flat canopy is what I'm aiming for.
Defoliating is a technique not everyone subscribes to but I do. I use defoliation to help with light penetration by clearing away fan leaves so that light can get further down to the lower parts of the colas. I also use defoliation to help control relative humidity, less leaves = lower RH as there is less surface area for the plant to evaporate water off of.
Lastly I have recently been playing with the timing of a defoliation. By defoliating a day or two after the switching of the light schedule (to induce bloom) I have found I can reduce some of the flowering stretch and thus produce shorter plants with tighter internodal spacing. I am still playing with defoliation techniques, I have only recently read about a similar procedure referred to as schwazzing.
Lollipopping basically means removing any small bud sites and fan leaves from the area below where the light penetrates down. Basically if it isn't getting much light you should remove it as its still stealing resources from the main colas.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. Can't yet grow in my newly legal MMJ state and I won't until so as I don't want to endanger my med cert here, but it will change and I hope to set up a small indoor grow someday.
I appreciate your taking the time to reply.
But I'm still a bit confused. Defoliating is removing the fan leaves....upper fan leaves? I ask because it sounds like lollipopping is removing fan leaves and lower small buds. Difference is one is top level leaves and the other lower level stuff?
Sorry is I'm a bit dense today.
Thanks
Here are a couple pictures I found on this so you can get a visual comparison... growers please correct me or post a better example if I'm wrong?
Defoliating...
Lollypopping...
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Oh Mom....doing your own research is just so boring....I'd rather bug @GreenHopper (haha jk).
So, do you defoliate early on and then Lollipop later or is it one or the other?
Thanks
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Sorry @Baron23 I should have used some pics as an illustration like @momofthegoons but I'm posting via mobile as I'm at the folks for Easter.
It's not a 1, 2, 3 step process as each grow can have a different set of variables affecting it. Strain being in my experience the biggest factor. Then technique and environment choices like lighting / grow medium.
Essentially if the plant is healthy and growing well with no leaf discolouration, weak stems or root issues then defoliation is just the removal of fan leaves to clear room in the tent to allow light to penetrate down into the lower parts of the colas.
Lollipopping is defoliation but you are more aggressive with the lower foliage, removing any bud sites as well as fan leaves. Its called lollipopping because the shape somewhat resembles a lollipop. By removing the lower bud sites the plant will focus its energy on the main colas.
A plant usually takes a few days (up to a week) to recover from a High Stress Training (HST) technique like defoliation or topping. This can be used to one's advantage if applied at the right times. I'm still learning my timing and it's a little different with each grow, you have to just do it a few times and see how the plants respond. Generally I find I want to defoliate once during the veg phase mostly to keep things tidy and to lower the relative humidity. I have recently also been defoliating just a day or two after switching to the bloom phase. This is to clear space for light but also a deliberate ploy to slow the plant growth during the flowering stretch. I'll likely do a light defoliating a few weeks later and then it's just the odd fan leaf that's blocking too much light.
Bear in mind I'm also topping the plant 2-3 times as well as part of my manifolding technique. Not everyone chooses to follow that technique, some prefer faster turn around times by SCRoGing or even just using Low Stress Training (LST) methods.
I'm happy to answer as many of your questions as I can fella but what I do suits me but may not be what suits you. Learning to cultivate cannabis is as much a journey as learning how best to vaporise it
I recommend you have a read of Nebula's Basics Guide, it's a great article. You'll likely know a lot of the content already but there is also a lot of attention to detail in the guide and there are sub guides/topics as well. If you are still waiting for your state to approve for home grows then now is the perfect time to research and begin working on your justification to Mrs. @Baron23
It's not a 1, 2, 3 step process as each grow can have a different set of variables affecting it. Strain being in my experience the biggest factor. Then technique and environment choices like lighting / grow medium.
Essentially if the plant is healthy and growing well with no leaf discolouration, weak stems or root issues then defoliation is just the removal of fan leaves to clear room in the tent to allow light to penetrate down into the lower parts of the colas.
Lollipopping is defoliation but you are more aggressive with the lower foliage, removing any bud sites as well as fan leaves. Its called lollipopping because the shape somewhat resembles a lollipop. By removing the lower bud sites the plant will focus its energy on the main colas.
A plant usually takes a few days (up to a week) to recover from a High Stress Training (HST) technique like defoliation or topping. This can be used to one's advantage if applied at the right times. I'm still learning my timing and it's a little different with each grow, you have to just do it a few times and see how the plants respond. Generally I find I want to defoliate once during the veg phase mostly to keep things tidy and to lower the relative humidity. I have recently also been defoliating just a day or two after switching to the bloom phase. This is to clear space for light but also a deliberate ploy to slow the plant growth during the flowering stretch. I'll likely do a light defoliating a few weeks later and then it's just the odd fan leaf that's blocking too much light.
Bear in mind I'm also topping the plant 2-3 times as well as part of my manifolding technique. Not everyone chooses to follow that technique, some prefer faster turn around times by SCRoGing or even just using Low Stress Training (LST) methods.
I'm happy to answer as many of your questions as I can fella but what I do suits me but may not be what suits you. Learning to cultivate cannabis is as much a journey as learning how best to vaporise it
I recommend you have a read of Nebula's Basics Guide, it's a great article. You'll likely know a lot of the content already but there is also a lot of attention to detail in the guide and there are sub guides/topics as well. If you are still waiting for your state to approve for home grows then now is the perfect time to research and begin working on your justification to Mrs. @Baron23
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Started growing with autos a few years back. These can't handle stress, because they veg for a fixed length of time, then begin to flower automatically - no changing light schedule. So, SCROG seemed like the best option - just continued with first photos.
The plant pictured above was partially defoliated early to lower RH. She was remarkably strong and didn't slow down at all. This plant also has some auto genes, but not for photoperiod. She's an auto backcrossed to her photo parent. This produces faster growth.
Don't regret starting with autos and beginners might consider it. They're easier in some ways, but more difficult in others. No worrying about light leaks, and they finish very fast. They're also smaller and require less space per plant. Of course, they produce less. The challenge of vegging them big and fast forces you to optimize your technique. A good way to get your feet wet and see if you like growing.
Shredder
Dogs like me
Sorry @Baron23 I should have used some pics as an illustration like @momofthegoons but I'm posting via mobile as I'm at the folks for Easter.
It's not a 1, 2, 3 step process as each grow can have a different set of variables affecting it. Strain being in my experience the biggest factor. Then technique and environment choices like lighting / grow medium.
Essentially if the plant is healthy and growing well with no leaf discolouration, weak stems or root issues then defoliation is just the removal of fan leaves to clear room in the tent to allow light to penetrate down into the lower parts of the colas.
Lollipopping is defoliation but you are more aggressive with the lower foliage, removing any bud sites as well as fan leaves. Its called lollipopping because the shape somewhat resembles a lollipop. By removing the lower bud sites the plant will focus its energy on the main colas.
A plant usually takes a few days (up to a week) to recover from a High Stress Training (HST) technique like defoliation or topping. This can be used to one's advantage if applied at the right times. I'm still learning my timing and it's a little different with each grow, you have to just do it a few times and see how the plants respond. Generally I find I want to defoliate once during the veg phase mostly to keep things tidy and to lower the relative humidity. I have recently also been defoliating just a day or two after switching to the bloom phase. This is to clear space for light but also a deliberate ploy to slow the plant growth during the flowering stretch. I'll likely do a light defoliating a few weeks later and then it's just the odd fan leaf that's blocking too much light.
Bear in mind I'm also topping the plant 2-3 times as well as part of my manifolding technique. Not everyone chooses to follow that technique, some prefer faster turn around times by SCRoGing or even just using Low Stress Training (LST) methods.
I'm happy to answer as many of your questions as I can fella but what I do suits me but may not be what suits you. Learning to cultivate cannabis is as much a journey as learning how best to vaporise it
I recommend you have a read of Nebula's Basics Guide, it's a great article. You'll likely know a lot of the content already but there is also a lot of attention to detail in the guide and there are sub guides/topics as well. If you are still waiting for your state to approve for home grows then now is the perfect time to research and begin working on your justification to Mrs. @Baron23
Just my opinion, but although I'm not against pulling leaves that don't get light, but you have to remember why plants have leaves. They take energy from the sun and convert that into plant energy. The leaves are where photosynthesis happens. Leaves are the plants motor. Light is the gas.
In particular I take issue with pulling leaves close to the change into flower. A week or more before is fine, and is when i take cuttings for the next crop. At flowering time the plants hormones go a liitle crazy. The growth hormones soon change and then the flowering hormones will dominate. Not when you want to weaken a plant, imho. This when you want a healthy plant raring to go. They put out growth now because most growth stops after buds start forming. So the plants need tons of energy for that growth spurt. The plants health and well being is critical at this time. If your pulling leaves to slow down a plant now, it would be better to just flower shorter plants. Again my opinion, not critizing.
After about three weeks in flower the plants energy is now going to make flowers, the stretch is over. Again due to hormonal changes brought on by the dark timing, or when you adjust lights for flower. The dark time or hours of darkness is the signal that changes the plants growth and rooting hormones to flowering hormones.
After about 3 weeks in flower plants don't use much nitrogen, but more potassium, phosphorus, calcium as flowers build. And this is a good time to expose budding sites to light by pulling leaves that might block light. Buds use light to mature. I ussually take small underneath stems that don't get good light now as well, or you'll just get unmature popcorn buds if you leave them alone.
I know some strip all fan leaves now, and I've seen plants thrive like that (white widow) but most others aren't really helped at all. And if the plants health is in question now, pulling leaves might be the nail in the coffin.
Weeks 3-6 I generally pull yellow leaves or those that are blocking bud sites but leave other leaves alone.
Weeks 6-10 are just coasting for me, no more food just water. And I pull yellow leaves until harvest.
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Hey bud, I don't disagree with what you are saying. I was following the thread and describing what's working for me and I should have been more specific.
I'm growing Auto's and they are every bit as large and high yielding as the feminised photoperiod plants I've grown in the past.
Being autos I can't control the plant size by making the switch from 18/6 to 12/12 earlier. So using the defoliation technique just after switching is the only method I know of to keep the plants shorter.
Again, don't do this if your plants aren't healthy to begin with, if you are growing photoperiod plants then @Shredder is right about using the light 'schedule change' to control flowering stretch.
Yes again I don't disagree at all with what you are saying.
But these plants evolved to grow outside, with a light source that moves across the sky. The plant has to compensate for the environment so it produces way more leaves than it needs or could use at any one time.
For starters the plants that grow in the wild will take on a Christmas tree shape to capture as much light as possible from the moving light source, but only 50% of the surface area is ever going to be in direct sunlight, often less depending on surrounding environment.
Then there is the threat of animals and creatures eating the leaves, over producing leaves help to compensate for this. Lastly there is the threat of disease or damage to the leaves.
When growing indoors we are removing several of those factors by fixing the light source directly above and by avoiding leaf loss by critters. We do are best to grow in sterile environments to avoid disease and accidental damage only occurs when we are tired and accidentally chop a main cola off (it's happened, it still haunts me).
In the indoor scenario the overproduction of foliage is actually a problem and the leaves cause RH issues, block light and can promote mould.
Yes the plant needs some fan leaves, you should be leaving the top two nodes alone. In my experience it's better to keep the rest of the space light and airy rather than bushy and humid. That's a sentence for an out of context thread right there
I always advise to leave the top two nodes worth of fan leaves alone and to never Top, FIM or trim an unhealthy looking plant.
That is true for many auto's but some can handle it if you are careful with the timing. It also depends on the growing medium, hydro will help plants recover quickly from HST techniques but many prefer soil for richer terp profiles.
That's cool, never read about back crossing autos into photoperiod plants for faster growth. Nice
I went the other way around and started with feminised photoperiod seeds as at the time auto's didn't have the greatest reputation.
Don't disagree with you here.
That's what I thought but the 'Fast Buds GG#4 took my completely by surprise and were about the same size as my photoperiod grows only my first grow with them had received no HST and medium LST and they got out of control.
I think the breeders are getting much better at producing auto's that produce high yields.
I only tried auto's out of curiosity but the first grow ('Fast Buds GG#4') produced about the same yield as my previous photoperiod grows. My second GG#4 grow with HST and LST outperformed all my previous grows.
Also the amount of kief I collected from the trim was unbelievable.
I need to try out some other Auto genetics to see how they grow but I've just been loving the FB GG#4 seeds.
That's cool, never read about back crossing autos into photoperiod plants for faster growth. Nice
Most vigorous plant ever, best of both worlds, IMO. Many of the auto breeders are doing this with their most popular strains. They're usually called something like "Fast F1".
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
I'll have to keep an eye out for these back crossed varieties.
The term 'F1 or Fast' in regards to seeds is in relation to the first generation of seeds from cross breeding. They tend to be popular because of 'hybrid vigor' where they tend to grow faster and stronger than subsequent generations.
Good article on hybris seeds: Learn About F1 Hybrid Seeds
Shredder
Dogs like me
@GreenHopper I guess it's obvious we grow differently, nothing wrong with that. Although I've taught growing mj indoors and soil building at two compassion clubs, I've never grown auto flowering plants, and never recommended them. I suppose now they're better than a few years back. They used to be tiny 1/2 oz plants. Nothing like the pics on seed packs. I do appreciate the idea for small time grows. A handfull of seeds can go a long way. But for me I rarely sprout seeds. I just don't want surprises in a scrog grow. Only cuts off trusted plants make it to my garden. But I have patients relying on my garden.
You keep mentioning humidity. Something I've never had a problem with. I take winter intake air through my sealed hoods, and the light drys the air when the lights are on and a dehumidifier takes care of lights out moisture, if it's high. Very simple solution. In summer I just use a dehumidifier at lights out. My only problem here with humidity in five years of growing is getting buds to dry from mid August to mid September. The most radical thing I've done is to seal a room with racks of buds and a dehumidifier for a day or overnight. It's just tough to dry buds when the humidity goes above 80% for days. Some years are worse than others.
In my other house I took intake air in from a utility room that had dry air. (furnace and hotwater tank) The environment is very important, maybe the most important, my therory is to fix the environment and let the plant grow as it wants, with just gentle nudges here and there.
Speaking of outdoor growing, look at what fruit tree growers do. I used to have over 100 fruit trees. They do trim at appropriate times, but I've never seen a tree stripped of leaves and full of apples, lol. Same with vegetables. That it might work doesn't mean it's better in anyway. The proof would be in the results. I've seen no proof. I havn't seen big dispensary grows grow like that either. Mostly it's touted on forums like IC or riu. Places I don't hang out at. But I hear about it at grow classes.
I know someone who grew all white widow plants that he defoliated. It worked reasonably well until he switched varieties and his grows failed, one after another. Sometimes it was bugs, other times the stressed plants just wouldnt take up nutrients and remained scrawny weak plants with low yeilds. I eventually got him back on track, but now he is a patient of mine and no longer grows.
And speaking of sterile, mine is far from sterile. I have a worm farm in my flower room, and my soil is alive with tons of creepy crawlies. A close look at my soil and you see bugs and spiders all over, just like nature intended. It's not dirty but it is alive, and life isn't sterile.
You keep mentioning humidity. Something I've never had a problem with. I take winter intake air through my sealed hoods, and the light drys the air when the lights are on and a dehumidifier takes care of lights out moisture, if it's high. Very simple solution. In summer I just use a dehumidifier at lights out. My only problem here with humidity in five years of growing is getting buds to dry from mid August to mid September. The most radical thing I've done is to seal a room with racks of buds and a dehumidifier for a day or overnight. It's just tough to dry buds when the humidity goes above 80% for days. Some years are worse than others.
In my other house I took intake air in from a utility room that had dry air. (furnace and hotwater tank) The environment is very important, maybe the most important, my therory is to fix the environment and let the plant grow as it wants, with just gentle nudges here and there.
Speaking of outdoor growing, look at what fruit tree growers do. I used to have over 100 fruit trees. They do trim at appropriate times, but I've never seen a tree stripped of leaves and full of apples, lol. Same with vegetables. That it might work doesn't mean it's better in anyway. The proof would be in the results. I've seen no proof. I havn't seen big dispensary grows grow like that either. Mostly it's touted on forums like IC or riu. Places I don't hang out at. But I hear about it at grow classes.
I know someone who grew all white widow plants that he defoliated. It worked reasonably well until he switched varieties and his grows failed, one after another. Sometimes it was bugs, other times the stressed plants just wouldnt take up nutrients and remained scrawny weak plants with low yeilds. I eventually got him back on track, but now he is a patient of mine and no longer grows.
And speaking of sterile, mine is far from sterile. I have a worm farm in my flower room, and my soil is alive with tons of creepy crawlies. A close look at my soil and you see bugs and spiders all over, just like nature intended. It's not dirty but it is alive, and life isn't sterile.
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GreenHopper
20 going on 60
You are spot on, two very different grows with different:
- Mediums (soil vs hydro)
- Strains
- Climates
- Size of grow
Last 3 grows I germinated 4 auto seeds per grow but only placed the best 3 in the reservoir. I have room for 4 but its easier to manage with 3 and the yields tend to be about the same as it's the light that's the limiting factor (Kind K5 750).
They grow about 3.5ft - 4ft tall, after HST (2 toppings) and LST. I tried to keep my photoperiods around that height too, which were also germinated from seed but I had a different reservoir back then.
I never intended to use the manifolding technique with the auto's. I assumed they wouldn't cope with the topping but the first grow with only LST proved that I needed to train them with HST and the second confirmed I could.
Last harvest got me:
- 12x 32oz WM Ball jars. On average about 1.5oz a jar for 18oz total.
- 1x Jyarz satchmo full of kief from trim
- 1x tub of green shit cooked from the remains of the shake and coconut oil, not sure what I'm gonna do with it yet.
- A small ball of scissor hash but lost loads to the gloves, not figured out a good retrieval method yet. Very sticky shit.
Yeah man, my grow space is only 1.2m X 1.2m X 2m and the plants fill it up. RH would be a problem for me if I didn't remove foliage.
Temps can be an issue too, I've managed in the past using an AC during summer but my yields are good enough now to avoid the summer quarter and the AC is a pain in the ass. I hate it more than I hate fax machines.
I like your theory, I've done what I can with the environment for the time being.
I still believe training the plants improves my yields for my environment.
Man you totally lost me with this paragraph and example.
I was using and discussing indoor techniques, I wouldn't dream of chopping off all the leaves of Apple trees. They would require a totally different training technique and I'm not saying defoliation is better in all examples. Actually I pointed out very clearly that not all growers use or subscribe to defoliation.
My results have shown that for small indoor grows defoliation and plant training results in a higher yield. Similar to the example in this tutorial.
Most grow forums discuss indoor grow techniques because most folk don't have the capability to grow outside. Usually because of stealth reasons be it legality or security.
Most folk aren't big dispensary growers either, again you are mixing apples with oranges. Very different grow operations to what we were discussing.
Yeh i wouldn't defoliate sick plants, if its got a mite infection or a nutrient deficiency then deal with that before taking and leaves off the plant. Only defoliate if the plant is happy and healthy.
Got no issue with nature, never thought soil of as dirty. Many growers prefer it and believe it enriches the terp profile of the buds.
I personally don't have the room for a worm farm in my house.
In the future I'd like to grow with super soil but that's a discussion for another time.
Thanks! Actually have MSc in genetics.
Just had some with fan leaf coconut butter. Nice edibles buzz, if you eat enough. Light, pleasant flavor using the water wash method. Highly recommend this dehumidifier for small spaces. Placed under canopy, kept RH well within acceptable range even with lush foliage wall-to-wall in 0.6m x 1.1m closet. Peltier, so negligible increase in temp.
Shredder
Dogs like me
You are spot on, two very different grows with different:
I grow for myself a few patients and an old hippy.....and for the love of it
- Mediums (soil vs hydro)
- Strains
- Climates
- Size of grow
Last 3 grows I germinated 4 auto seeds per grow but only placed the best 3 in the reservoir. I have room for 4 but its easier to manage with 3 and the yields tend to be about the same as it's the light that's the limiting factor (Kind K5 750).
They grow about 3.5ft - 4ft tall, after HST (2 toppings) and LST. I tried to keep my photoperiods around that height too, which were also germinated from seed but I had a different reservoir back then.
I never intended to use the manifolding technique with the auto's. I assumed they wouldn't cope with the topping but the first grow with only LST proved that I needed to train them with HST and the second confirmed I could.
Last harvest got me:
I'm not saying all Auto's will grow like this, just that I have seen fairly consistent yields from 3x FB GG#4 grows taking into account the training methods.
- 12x 32oz WM Ball jars. On average about 1.5oz a jar for 18oz total.
- 1x Jyarz satchmo full of kief from trim
- 1x tub of green shit cooked from the remains of the shake and coconut oil, not sure what I'm gonna do with it yet.
- A small ball of scissor hash but lost loads to the gloves, not figured out a good retrieval method yet. Very sticky shit.
Yeah man, my grow space is only 1.2m X 1.2m X 2m and the plants fill it up. RH would be a problem for me if I didn't remove foliage.
Temps can be an issue too, I've managed in the past using an AC during summer but my yields are good enough now to avoid the summer quarter and the AC is a pain in the ass. I hate it more than I hate fax machines.
I like your theory, I've done what I can with the environment for the time being.
I still believe training the plants improves my yields for my environment.
Man you totally lost me with this paragraph and example.
I was using and discussing indoor techniques, I wouldn't dream of chopping off all the leaves of Apple trees. They would require a totally different training technique and I'm not saying defoliation is better in all examples. Actually I pointed out very clearly that not all growers use or subscribe to defoliation.
My results have shown that for small indoor grows defoliation and plant training results in a higher yield. Similar to the example in this tutorial.
Most grow forums discuss indoor grow techniques because most folk don't have the capability to grow outside. Usually because of stealth reasons be it legality or security.
Most folk aren't big dispensary growers either, again you are mixing apples with oranges. Very different grow operations to what we were discussing.
Yeh i wouldn't defoliate sick plants, if its got a mite infection or a nutrient deficiency then deal with that before taking and leaves off the plant. Only defoliate if the plant is happy and healthy.
Got no issue with nature, never thought soil of as dirty. Many growers prefer it and believe it enriches the terp profile of the buds.
I personally don't have the room for a worm farm in my house.
In the future I'd like to grow with super soil but that's a discussion for another time.
Hydro huh? I guess we're talking apples and oranges .
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Thanks! Actually have MSc in genetics.
I got an MSc in googling
Sorry if I came across as condescending, that wasn't my aim at all. I guess at least maybe others reading the thread may benefit from it.
Haha awesome, may the buzz be with you.
I'll probably cap some of the infused coconut oil but I got 800g of the stuff.
Nice, always good to get peoples recommendations on equipment. That looks like a good unit.
I have the RH under control with the defoliation I do so it's mostly not an issue now. Also I'm trying to keep electrics out of the tent as I'm running hydro.
Obviously I have to run the lights, pumps and the fans so there is power in there but it's all suspended off the floor so any leaks or spills are kept clear of electricity. I'll take a pic of the setup once I've done a tidy up from the last harvest. I'm kinda dragging my heal on the but I'm not doing a grow between now and September so I'm in no rush.
Also then I can point out the bits of the setup I like vs what I don't like vs what I should have done / will do next.
Yeh you must have missed my previous post where I listed the setup and techniques used. That's what spawned @Baron23's defoliation query and set the context of my response.
Thing is I'm just as interested in your setup and experience. I don't plan on being bound by the need to grow indoors forever so it's nice to get your viewpoint as well.
I like how people turn growing pot into something hard and time consuming, scroggin, defoliating blah, blah, blah, I have a little experience with outdoor growing (more my dearly departed fathers speciality) and have been growing indoors since`93. I have tried a lot of different methods on the one motherplant (white rhino for last 18 years, just changed to incredible bulk) I have found just leaving the plants alone and not fucking around so much with them seems the best way to go. Everytime you go in the grow room you are potentially doing harm(bringing in bugs and bacteria), evertime you cut or pinch , cut or bendyou are stressing the plant and this time could be better spent growing. All the time and energy spent for weeks in the veg stage getting large plants to deliver large yields would be better spent bringing in an extra crop. I just wait until my clones are about 8-10" tall , (about 1-2 weeks) then turn the light to 12on 12 off for 8-9 weeks then harvest, this is also where you save time, not many little buds down low to worry about, just one big bud on a stick about 3 feet tall each.
I now use this;
http://www.autopot.com.au/
No pumps,heaters or anything that uses electrickery required.(Great for greenhouses)
I use 2x 8 pot system with perlite as a medium with Canna nutrients(you can use just about anything) I get around 1.5-2 oz per plant under a 600w light (MH then HPS) every 10-11 weeks. I used to grow my clones up under a 400w Duel spectrum HPS to cut harvest times down to every 8-9 weeks, but have gotten too lazy to bother rushing anymore.
I now use this;
http://www.autopot.com.au/
No pumps,heaters or anything that uses electrickery required.(Great for greenhouses)
I use 2x 8 pot system with perlite as a medium with Canna nutrients(you can use just about anything) I get around 1.5-2 oz per plant under a 600w light (MH then HPS) every 10-11 weeks. I used to grow my clones up under a 400w Duel spectrum HPS to cut harvest times down to every 8-9 weeks, but have gotten too lazy to bother rushing anymore.
Kellya86
Herb Gardener.....
I like how people turn growing pot into something hard and time consuming, scroggin, defoliating blah, blah, blah, I have a little experience with outdoor growing (more my dearly departed fathers speciality) and have been growing indoors since`93. I have tried a lot of different methods on the one motherplant (white rhino for last 18 years, just changed to incredible bulk) I have found just leaving the plants alone and not fucking around so much with them seems the best way to go. Everytime you go in the grow room you are potentially doing harm(bringing in bugs and bacteria), evertime you cut or pinch , cut or bendyou are stressing the plant and this time could be better spent growing. All the time and energy spent for weeks in the veg stage getting large plants to deliver large yields would be better spent bringing in an extra crop. I just wait until my clones are about 8-10" tall , (about 1-2 weeks) then turn the light to 12on 12 off for 8-9 weeks then harvest, this is also where you save time, not many little buds down low to worry about, just one big bud on a stick about 3 feet tall each.
I now use this;
http://www.autopot.com.au/
No pumps,heaters or anything that uses electrickery required.(Great for greenhouses)
I use 2x 8 pot system with perlite as a medium with Canna nutrients(you can use just about anything) I get around 1.5-2 oz per plant under a 600w light (MH then HPS) every 10-11 weeks. I used to grow my clones up under a 400w Duel spectrum HPS to cut harvest times down to every 8-9 weeks, but have gotten too lazy to bother rushing anymore.
Well it seems you have your system nailed...
I agree that leaving alone is preferable for the plant...
I try to leave them as much as possible.. just monitor them..
My problem is i have no room for a mother plant to take clones.. also im tryin to build a collection of different strains..
So i go from seed everytime...
This means i want to maximise what i get from each crop.. so i train them... i know this slows them down, but doubles my yield...
So for me it pays to do some lst....
I too use 600w mh/hps still... on the verge of going led...
Anyway good to have another experianced cultivator here... there are a few now...
A good resource of knowledge....
No regrets with Amare's Pro 300W. LEDs (and autos) were the inspiration to resume growing. So much easier then MH.
Clearly, you have much to teach all of us (except maybe @ataxian, of course).
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