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COVID-19
- Thread starter Kurtdigglur
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CarolKing
Always in search of the perfect vaporizer
This thread has offered up a a lot useful information but also a lot of ridiculous stuff as well. Some funny things that can lighten a day for sure. The year has been difficult and stressful for many, let’s just be supportive. I do like some good debate.
I don’t like mean.
I don’t like mean.
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Kellya86
Herb Gardener.....
I really understand why we dont have political threads now...
Differences of opinions can turn members against each other who would normally have got on fine...
We all have strong opinions but you have yo remember they are just that.. opinions...
We all have to respect others opinions and choices...
And i expect my government to respect my choices...
I was shocked to hear that there are mantitory vaccines...
I am a human on this planet.. this is my body...
NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT TO PUT IN IT... NOBODY..
And if anyone disagrees with this statement then thats kinda fucked up...
Differences of opinions can turn members against each other who would normally have got on fine...
We all have strong opinions but you have yo remember they are just that.. opinions...
We all have to respect others opinions and choices...
And i expect my government to respect my choices...
I was shocked to hear that there are mantitory vaccines...
I am a human on this planet.. this is my body...
NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT TO PUT IN IT... NOBODY..
And if anyone disagrees with this statement then thats kinda fucked up...
A report (summarized below) from the UK government supports concern that, in addition to being 30%-50% more transmissible, the virus variant first identified there is associated with similarly higher rates of hospitalization and death. The currently approved vaccines appear to protect against infection by this variant as well as they do against the parent virus. In the US, a new study (posted previously) estimates that the number of infections by this variant is doubling every 10 days, and the CDC expects it to become predominant next month.
A stronger argument for vaccinating the public is difficult to imagine, IMO. If you'll permit a hypothesis, recombination between this variant and one of the South African or Brazilian lineages could produce (and possibly already has produced) a variant that is: more transmissible than, more deadly than, and antigenically distinct from the parent.
Published 12 February 2021
From: Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies
The point of the last few pages is that not all opinions are equal. The essence of critical thinking is knowing the value of different opinions. Old-fashioned scholarship helps us to measure that value. Sometimes we make mistakes. Those who think critically, admit their mistakes, and change their opinions accordingly.
A stronger argument for vaccinating the public is difficult to imagine, IMO. If you'll permit a hypothesis, recombination between this variant and one of the South African or Brazilian lineages could produce (and possibly already has produced) a variant that is: more transmissible than, more deadly than, and antigenically distinct from the parent.
NERVTAG: Update note on B.1.1.7 severity, 11 February 2021
Paper prepared by the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG) on SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.1.7.Published 12 February 2021
From: Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies
The point of the last few pages is that not all opinions are equal. The essence of critical thinking is knowing the value of different opinions. Old-fashioned scholarship helps us to measure that value. Sometimes we make mistakes. Those who think critically, admit their mistakes, and change their opinions accordingly.
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Kellya86
Herb Gardener.....
Thats exactly the shit im on about.. a petty dig...
Just because someone has a different opinion...
Childish.......
Vitolo
Vaporist
The study was an interesting read... better than most I've seen recently..
It did clearly state at the very top, in the beginning of the posted study
classified as an unrefereed preprint:
This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.
Easily remedied. Just can't resist, a personal failing.
Absolutely, and that's essential to keep in mind. Preprints are not as valuable as peer-reviewed study reports. With COVID, the reason for preprints is obvious - information is needed urgently and peer-review takes time. Preprints are under review, but they may change substantively, so you need to keep checking.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Well yeah....we ALL seem to think that OUR opinions are more valid than other contrasting opinions....that is part of why are are called opinions and NOT facts.
I think (yes, my opinion) that the point of the last few pages is that much of what is posted is just that...opinions....and no more.
Thedev
US Army Vet, Dad, Churner & Cannabis Lover
This is actually a very heart warming Covid moment....Ed sent 3502 (new 350 into the fleet) to the barn to be pinned the new Delta Spirit.
This symbolizes union and victory during this tough times...Ed Bastian was a good boss to me and is for hundreds of thousands .I cannot wait to board this bird.
By the way, Delta team is one of the most 420 friendly companies I have ever worked with, keep that up too.
Marlon Rando
Well-Known Member
Are you contradicting yourself? You seemed to believe that opinions that are derived from adequately referenced, original sources are worth more than those that are fabricated outright or based on second-hand interpretations of unidentified sources, for example. When opinions contradict, it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that the better supported opinion is more likely to be correct. If your opinion is less well supported, the reasonable thing to do is to change that opinion. IME, those with the least supported opinions are those most resistant to changing them, and they often justify their resistance by claiming that all opinions are equal.
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Marlon Rando
Well-Known Member
Trader Joe's Mask less Marathon Feb 28th.
Vitolo
Vaporist
Nice that we have a Forum with professional Psychoanalysts to add clear logic to our discussion.
It helps keep things straight!
Everybody wants to get in on the "Victim of Oppression" bandwagon.
The Viennese are not immune to this burgeoning concept in their part of the world..
I read it all at https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/thousands-vienna-rally-against-covid-restrictions
Apparently this particular protest was because there were a number of announced protests scheduled for this weekend.
The Viennese govt felt that with their % of positive cases on the rise that this weekend would not be safe for mass Public Gatherings,
so they canceled this weekend's protests.
Important to note, that they have been allowing all protests which are planned, but This weeks record increase in cases caused the cancelation of the public gatherings.
Even though they have been allowed marches and protests all along, what they protest today is the cancellation of today's protest!
It helps keep things straight!
Everybody wants to get in on the "Victim of Oppression" bandwagon.
The Viennese are not immune to this burgeoning concept in their part of the world..
I read it all at https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/thousands-vienna-rally-against-covid-restrictions
Apparently this particular protest was because there were a number of announced protests scheduled for this weekend.
The Viennese govt felt that with their % of positive cases on the rise that this weekend would not be safe for mass Public Gatherings,
so they canceled this weekend's protests.
Important to note, that they have been allowing all protests which are planned, but This weeks record increase in cases caused the cancelation of the public gatherings.
Even though they have been allowed marches and protests all along, what they protest today is the cancellation of today's protest!
Baron23
Well-Known Member
No. I think that FACTS proven through rigorous testing, sufficiently reviewed by independent means, and which have withstood scrutiny over time are superior to all opinions.
And, I think that this: "those that are fabricated outright or based on second-hand interpretations of unidentified sources, for example" is an example of what I see as your rather consistently expressed view of the intellectual superiority of your opinions, based on your sources, compared to those with whom you do not agree.
And yes, I do think that there is a lot of "myths" and "rumors" about COVID, restrictions, treatment, vaccine, etc that are completely off the wall and which I personally feel free to utterly dismiss. I mean, people buy the National Enquirer and actually believe that stuff. What are you going to do? There are a lot of truly stupid people in the world...really Darwin Award Winner candidates. Blame it on social blather (which is all it is to me and calling it "media" is a joke), if you like. I do. haha
But, I also think most of this "scientific proof" that is put out there, pretty much daily, is anything but. It strikes me as being, for the most part, preliminary information against which some far reaching conclusions had to be drawn as action had to be taken in a very limited amount of time. So, you go with the best you have....but that makes it a best guess...not a fact. And I personally think that we have seen tons of "best guesses" come out of guys like Fauci which then get treated by media/people like they are established and agreed upon facts, which they are not.
However, IMO a contrary view that some of these "best guess" conclusions have overreached the available evidence is also not, to me, unfounded and that the burden to be right on public policy decision makers is very high given the very great and very negative impact on a huge number of people from closings and other restrictions.
As an example of this last point, I do wear a mask and I don't go out to bars, gyms, and try to limit my exposure overall. And I will most definitely take the vaccine. These are my decisions made in consideration of my age and comorbidity and I don't personally need proof to take these actions as they only impact me and I'm willing to do so just on the chance...any chance no matter how small... that they may reduce the probability of my contracting COVID....no matter how small this reduction might be. These are personal choices, NOT public policy.
But ALL of the restaurants (and a lot of other stuff) where I live are currently closed...yet fucking again. But, I have no found not one instance of well validated contact tracing that proved (please not that word) that what we were running....which was restaurants at 25% capacity with staff in masks, patrons in masks until eating/drinking, expanded air filtering and cleaning, etc....contributed in any significant way whatsoever to the spread of this disease.
And this is not even to climb into the shit pile of hypocricy that has seemed to declare some super spreader events are in fact not...and other as being in fact so...mostly based on political considerations.
I personally do not think we will actually know what the fuck has really happened here...what was real and what was Memorex... except in retrospect, 5 years down the road.
Cheers and good god, why did I dip my toe back in this thread again.....sigh.
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CarolKing
Always in search of the perfect vaporizer
@Baron23 do you believe in mandatory seatbelts and folks having to need liability insurance to drive a car? Just a question not wanting an argument. I’m glad my friend you do all those things to protect yourself, like wearing a mask and getting a vaccine. I like your input and I agree with you part of the time. You don’t agree with me all the time either. Probably a lot of the time. We agree to disagree sometimes and that’s OK.
I have fond memories of you having my back in another forum when I was bullied. Thank you.
I have fond memories of you having my back in another forum when I was bullied. Thank you.
I could not have said it better. Thank you @Kellya86 .
There have been a number of passive aggressive jabs in posts that just aren't flying with me. And from members I wouldn't expect it from. I'm not going to single you all out.. But if you're wondering if it's you... it probably is. And if you are saying, 'it couldn't possibly be me'... it might be as well.
This forum is for supporting one another. Not tearing each other down because of a difference in opinion. You don't act like this when someone disagrees with you about a vape. So... come on..... let's dial it way back and start using those "What Would Mom Do Bracelets' in ernest. Cause if I see more of the not so subtle attacks on people's intelligence, beliefs, etc.... I'm coming down hard and fast. I've given you all a lot of lee way in this thread. It's not going to extend to people being shitty to one another.
And this isn't up for discussion.
Truly glad you did, thanks. Sorry about coming off that way. You should know this mind can change, because you've changed it, just as @Jeff and @voyciz have. That's what makes participation so worthwhile.
Science cannot provide facts, it can only make predictions. Some of those predictions are always right, but they're still predictions, not facts. Let go of this pencil, it will fall to the floor. Still a prediction, just an extremely safe bet. Observations are facts: let go of this pencil a thousand times, it always fell to the floor.
Proof, on the other hand, is reserved for logic, not just experience. Every time you sum the degrees in a triangle, you'll get 180, but you can also show that you must always get exactly 180 degrees. Science can never reach this level of certainty, it can only approach it. So, you're right that we have only best guesses, but that's all we can ever have. A matter of degree among guesses, not of kind between guesses and proof.
This is at the root of empiracism, in which science is based. (David Hume et al. wrote about it in the 18th century, but it's often forgotten, even - or especially - by today's scientists.)
Otherwise - do you suppose restaurant workers in Australia or the US have fared better this past year? (@LesPlenty wisely dodged the question.) Which country had tighter restrictions? Does that prove anything? No, but that's not the point. We all want to get to where Australia is now. In the US, it's fair to say that we invested most of our resources (and hopes) in developing vaccines. That bet paid off better and more quickly than any of us hoped. It seems like the same people who placed that bet are unwilling to collect. An arguable point.
Not all of our choices are personal. Many, even most, affect others. We determine, collectively, how to balance personal and public interests in our communities. Debate and protest (even civil disobedience, IMO) are healthy, even essential. If we don't agree that some guesses, some opinions, are better than others, and instead, impossibly, set the bar at proof, then there can be no basis for discussion and progress.
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Baron23
Well-Known Member
Ah....insurance, yes. Seat belts, always wear them. Mandatory...not so sure for the driver or adult passenger...if they want to do stupid shit they are welcome to it. Children in cars, absolutely.
Tried to give it a rest, but the news is just too exiting. 
A veritable litter of SEVEN all-American homegrown variants!
This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.
Bet they kick the other variants' ass!
A veritable litter of SEVEN all-American homegrown variants!Emergence in late 2020 of multiple lineages of SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein variants affecting amino acid position 677
Emma B Hodcroft, Daryl B Domman, Kasopefoluwa Oguntuyo, Daniel J Snyder, Maarten Van Diest, Kenneth H Densmore, Kurt C Schwalm, Jon Femling, Jennifer L Carroll, Rona S Scott, Martha M Whyte, Michael D Edwards, Noah C Hull, Christopher G Kevil, John A Vanchiere, Benhur Lee, Darrell L Dinwiddie, Vaughn S Cooper, Jeremy P KamilThis article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.
Bet they kick the other variants' ass!
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