COVID-19

[Vitolo]

You have both shots and still have to mask,what science is this?

My interpretation is:

1. Science: While personally protected, you can still spread the virus. Masking is an unselfish and painless way to protect others.
2. Social Approbation: While the rest of America is getting Vaccinated, average people can not tell who is a danger to them and who is not. Masking is a simple kindness that helps others to feel more comfortable with you being in the vicinity.

 

[CarolKing]

I have had both vaccines and its been past two weeks after the shot. Where I live we are still required to wear a mask. Also where I work requires masks. We don’t know who has had vaccines, that’s their business. I wear a mask to protect others. It hasn’t been fully known whether those that are vacicinated can pass on the virus to others, symptoms are not seen. If someone doesn’t have a mask on they can’t ride on public transportation, luckily I don’t have to rely on that.
I’m used to wearing a mask now. Even children keep their masks on, I was surprised about that.

 

[Baron23]

WTF

There really are people in the world who would benefit from a good ass kicking.

 

[Planck]

COVID VACCINE Considerations | PrimaryDoctor

Covid vaccine considerations, product package insert, clinical trials, mRNA, antibody dependent enhancement, ADE

www.primarydoctor.org

Credibility check, oops fail.

Overall, we rate Primary Doctor Medical Journal (PDMJ) right biased and a quackery level pseudoscience website based on the publication of misleading and false information related to the Coronavirus.
Founded in October 2020, the Primary Doctor Medical Journal (PDMJ) is an anonymously run Coronavirus misinformation website. They claim to be peer-reviewed and state on their about page “The Journal focuses on topics primarily related to public health as well as preventive and natural medicine.”

The website 100% lacks transparency as they do not name owners, editors, peer-reviewers, or location as their domain is registered privately. However, all supposed peer-reviewed studies are written by Colleen Huber who is not an actual medical doctor, but rather a Naturopath who takes anti-vaccination positions as well as advocating for natural cancer cures, which does not have supportive evidence for effectiveness.

Funded by / Ownership

Primary Doctor Medical Journal does not disclose ownership or any names associated with the website, however, it appears that Colleen Huber is the primary publisher. Further, there does not appear to be a source of revenue.

Analysis / Bias

In review, Primary Doctor Medical Journal (PDMJ) claims to be a peer-reviewed medical journal, when in fact it is a website that publishes studies and research by Naturopath Colleen Huber, who runs a clinic that promotes natural cancer cures. The focus of the website is anti-mask and lockdown propaganda as it relates to Covid-19. For example in one of their research articles, they promote that wearing a mask is dangerous as it causes hypoxia and hypercapnia. This simply is not true. In fact, all of the papers on the website promotes the dangers of mask-wearing. In another study, they promote that lockdowns do not decrease deaths, which again is not true. Of the six so-called research papers on the website all are either misleading or false. Therefore, the Primary Doctor Medical Journal is not credible or legitimate based on the promotion of quackery level pseudoscience related to Coronavirus.

And www.primarydoctor.org/covidvaccine ends the article with this gem of illogic.

Holy fuckin' hell how does one even satirize something this stupid?

Lots about colleen huber the quack online if one cares to look.


The Mayo Clinic is one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in the world they recommend masks.

For the safety of our patients, staff and visitors, Mayo Clinic has strict masking policies in place.

 

[Marlon Rando]

 

[just_tHe_fLu]

Credibility check, oops fail.

... Obviously, you can find opposing info for anything, you can believe what you want, I think it's better to take in all info from all sides and make your own conclusions based on your expierence and not another's narrative or opinion... And there seems to be an agenda to push this and discredit and remove any opposing views or info... For me, when there seems to be an agenda, push this for control and money's being made from this it seems fishy... I have always had an open mind and I like all sides of anything so I can make my one conclusions... I've never been one to believe what I'm told. Especially when it seems as someone's trying too hard to make you believe something that might not be true... I'm skeptical in nature. I question everything and that is healthy... But opinions are like assholes... Everyone's got one...

 

[Vitolo]

when there seems to be an agenda

I will be the first to admit that there does seem to be a serious agenda here!

1. Stop the spread of Covid
2. Get economy back on track
3. Put an end to insane conspiracy theories that are spread by those that slow the termination of the virus by believing and by proliferating their paranoid belief that Covid, it's containment, vaccination procedures and mask-wearing has all been invented by "forces" wishing to control us.

 

[arb]

I will be the first to admit that there does seem to be a serious agenda here!

1. Stop the spread of Covid
2. Get economy back on track
3. Put an end to insane conspiracy theories that are spread by those who believe that Covid, it's containment, vaccination procedures and mask-wearing has all been invented by "forces" wishing to control us.

You sound like the insane theorist to me.
You are claiming to follow the science in one sentence then claiming you do not follow the science in the next in order to garner social approval.......literal virtue signalling.

 

[just_tHe_fLu]

Get economy back on track

... By forcing small business closed but big box stores can remain open. There would be less exposure in small business than everyone in the same store at once... many bars and restaurants struggle at 100% capacity but are forced to operate at 50% capacity. That sounds great for business... But what do I know? The powers to be clearly know what's best for us

 

[Vitolo]

You are claiming to follow the science in one sentence then claiming you do not follow the science

A direct example of my claiming each in two adjoining sentences would be helpful, and not simply a statement without backup..
I just carefully looked at all of my posts in this thread.
I see no contradiction whatsoever.
I mentioned Approval once, in the form of social approbation.

My interpretation is:

1. Science: While personally protected, you can still spread the virus. Masking is an unselfish and painless way to protect others.
2. **Social Approbation: While the rest of America is getting Vaccinated, average people can not tell who is a danger to them and who is not. Masking is a simple kindness that helps others to feel more comfortable with you being in the vicinity.

I have been fully vaccinated.
I mentioned one item that could be correlated with approval at all.... and that is "for the comfort of others, that do not know whether I am safe to be around."
This is not in any way an example of "garnering approval", it is in every way a courtesy to others.
It would be selfish of me to stop wearing a mask now that I am vaccinated.
The items I listed:

1. Stop the spread of Covid
2. Get economy back on track
3. Put an end to insane conspiracy theories that are spread by those that slow the termination of the virus by believing and by proliferating their paranoid belief that Covid, it's containment, vaccination procedures and mask-wearing has all been invented by "forces" wishing to control us.

These three Goals are all taken directly from the CDC Covid Goals from March 2020.
I paraphrased #3 which was actually: "Educate the public about the dangers of and prevention of Covid-19".
This was from before the Vaccine was developed and approved for emergency use.
Now Vaccination of the world's population is a fourth goal.

You sound like the insane theorist to me.
You are claiming to follow the science in one sentence then claiming you do not follow the science in the next in order to garner social approval.......literal virtue signalling.

If your consideration of what I have posted helps you rationalize my position as "insane conspiracy theory"... and if it in any way helps you to feel better about yourself... and your own life then by all means, have at it... I am willing to have you consider me as an "insane theorist"!
Pima county had one of the highest positivity rates in America one year ago.
I am very happy with where I have landed in the Covid mess, and I applaud the Masking Mandates and the law enforcement intervention, citations and fines that now have Pima County as one of the lowest positivity rates in the world.

many bars and restaurants struggle at 100% capacity but are forced to operate at 50% capacity.

Now that there is a vaccine, and a "handle" on getting the public immunized, the businesses that were closed
are being permitted to open at 50%.
Some consider this a glass half full, on the way to economic recovery.
Some individuals still find cause to whine about this, rather than seeing the jump from 0% function to 50% as growth.
It could be back at 100% shut-down, were the "POWERS THAT BE" trying to keep the economy from growing.

 

[just_tHe_fLu]

the businesses that were closed
are being permitted to open at 50%.

... That does not help the many who were more or less forced out of business because you know when your forced shut down the bills still come in... And when your forced not to conduct business you have no income to pay the bills... And still if these business struggled at 100%, 50% only makes the struggle harder because the bills are still 100%

 

[Vitolo]

And still if these business struggled at 100%, 50% only makes the struggle harder because the bills are still 100%

Yes indeed.
Paying bills are always at 100%.
The entire world's businesses are not thriving as they were before the pandemic.
That is what happens during Global Health crisis.

... By forcing small business closed but big box stores can remain open. There would be less exposure in small business than everyone in the same store at once... many bars and restaurants struggle at 100% capacity but are forced to operate at 50% capacity. That sounds great for business... But what do I know? The powers to be clearly know what's best for us

We all see what has happened, but I am not quite sure what your point/objective of this post is.

1. Is it to point fingers at Covid, the virus (the cause of the closures) for hurting the economy?
2. Perhaps your point is to chastise the World's Governments, for following CDC guidelines... therefore deserving of blame for financial struggle.
3. Perhaps your post was simply a comment to "vent" about the fact that Pandemics affect businesses and economies.

The small businesses that you speak of that are affected, are restaurants and bars.
Locally, once restrictions were lifted, and the restaurants and bars re-opened, within a few weeks, they all voluntarily re-closed their doors due to
their own employees contracting Covid.
I am not trying to put you on the spot here, @just_tHe_fLu, I am actually curious to know the intention of your post.
While it is obviously a display of dissatisfaction and discontent over what this virus has done to the economy, who or what you are dissatisfied with is unclear.
It just appears that you are dissatisfied.

 

[arb]

A direct example of my claiming each in two adjoining sentences would be helpful, and not simply a statement without backup..
I just carefully looked at all of my posts in this thread.
I see no contradiction whatsoever.
I mentioned Approval once, in the form of social approbation.

I have been fully vaccinated.
I mentioned one item that could be correlated with approval at all.... and that is "for the comfort of others, that do not know whether I am safe to be around."
This is not in any way an example of "garnering approval", it is in every way a courtesy to others.
It would be selfish of me to stop wearing a mask now that I am vaccinated.
The items I listed:

These three Goals are all taken directly from the CDC Covid Goals from March 2020.
I paraphrased #3 which was actually: "Educate the public about the dangers of and prevention of Covid-19".
This was from before the Vaccine was developed and approved for emergency use.
Now Vaccination of the world's population is a fourth goal.

If your consideration of what I have posted helps you rationalize my position as "insane conspiracy theory"... and if it in any way helps you to feel better about yourself... and your own life then by all means, have at it... I am willing to have you consider me as an "insane theorist"!
Pima county had one of the highest positivity rates in America one year ago.
I am very happy with where I have landed in the Covid mess, and I applaud the Masking Mandates and the law enforcement intervention, citations and fines that now have Pima County as one of the lowest positivity rates in the world.

Now that there is a vaccine, and a "handle" on getting the public immunized, the businesses that were closed
are being permitted to open at 50%.
Some consider this a glass half full, on the way to economic recovery.
Some individuals still find cause to whine about this, rather than seeing the jump from 0% function to 50% as growth.
It could be back at 100% shut-down, were the "POWERS THAT BE" trying to keep the economy from growing.

I said you sound like a insane theorist never used the word conspiracy....... that was you.
You also said you are vaccinated and the science says you do not need to wear a mask.
You do and say its for social approval....not science.
Just pointing out some seeming contradiction in your stance?

 

[Vitolo]

the science says you do not need to wear a mask.

No truth to this statement at all.
It's OK to spout opinions, but label them as such, without inventing your own definition of "the science".
CDC (SCIENCE) recommends that masks still be worn so that the fully vaccinated do not act as carriers.
The science, (and the assigned people at the vaccination site) hand you a form recommending that we continue to mask, so that we do not carry.
This was posted 9 days ago by the CDC... very current science!

After you’ve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions—like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces—in public places until we know more.

See it at: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

* Edit Note:
We get it. Many of you are dissatisfied with life because of the pandemic. The seeking of aspects to be dissatisfied with, and the fixation on them are natural reactions, when one feels helpless. It causes people to feel conspired against. It also causes people to dig deep for areas of dissatisfaction within their current situations to assign blame and causation to.

 

[Vitolo]

I said you sound like a insane theorist never used the word conspiracy....... that was you.

I just did a search.
In this conversations turns, I used the word conspiracy ONCE.

Put an end to insane conspiracy theories that are spread by those that slow the termination of the virus by believing and by proliferating their paranoid belief that Covid, it's containment, vaccination procedures and mask-wearing has all been invented by "forces" wishing to control us.

The very next post shows that this was a paraphrased statement, from the original CDC post:

I paraphrased #3 which was actually: "Educate the public about the dangers of and prevention of Covid-19".

It seems that when confronted, you are pointing out things from memory that do not correlate to anything actually posted in it's actual frame of reference for connotation and continuity.
Another article:

Democracy and the Politics of Coronavirus: Trust, Blame and Understanding

This article explores the relationship between crises and democracy through a focus on the unfolding coronavirus pandemic. Its central argument is that to interpret the current pandemic purely in terms of its epidemiology and public health implications ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[arb]

Projection much..........lolz.
Dude you're the one injecting a experimental substance not me.
You're the one living in udder terror of a virus with a 99.7 survivability rate per your CDC.
The same people assuring you all is well took the first step of absolving themselves of any and all legal and financial responsibility for their own actions.
Fight the power and all that right?

 

[just_tHe_fLu]

The entire world's businesses are not thriving as they were before the pandemic.

...this is not true, amazon for example...

 

[Baron23]

CDC (SCIENCE)

I personally think this is more accurate; CDC (big government)

As for masks....well, the virus is indeed smaller than the pores in an N-95 mask with the underlying proposition being that virus (COVID or otherwise) are mostly carried by aerosol droplets which indeed are bigger. But nobody has really quantified and proved that such masks stop all virus from being expelled from a carrier but they certainly do seem to block the bulk of aerosol droplets.

Now this is from Biden's CDC Director....not Redfield and Trump....Biden's CDC Director:

"Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real-world data," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told Rachel Maddow on Monday, March 29.

Now, there does seem to be evidence that vaccinated people can indeed contract the virus again. BUT, vaccinated people who contract the virus are much, much, much less likely to be asymptomatic; such asymptomatic people indeed being a major vector for this disease. So, vaccinated people who catch COVID again tend to actually feel sick and stay in the fucking house unlike asymptomatic people who have no idea and spray disease where ever they go.

Of course vaccinated people tend to not die or require hospitalization. I believe I was a statistic on the J&J vaccine (but might be wrong about the brand) that there were "virtually" zero hospitalizations (and so zero deaths)

So, this virus will never be fully eliminated and herd immunity does NOT fucking mean that nobody gets it and its wiped out.

So, since the virus will be here to stay, and insofar as vaccinated people can indeed continue to contract the disease, and insofar as no vaccine has been taken up by 100% of the population, the very valid question that comes up is what the fuck is the benchmark for lifting restrictions such as masks.

And the answer is.....well, good luck finding that.

 

[I'm Ron Burgundy?]

And you do realize the CDC says the vaccine may be good for up to six months or so. What a new vaccine that you have to pump yourself with every six months?
People that get these vaccines think they’re somehow immune to the virus which is complete and utter Fuckery.

 

[Vitolo]

...this is not true, amazon for example...

Very true.. I agree!
Yes, Mail order (internet ordering) is the future of shopping, and is responsible for a large part in the decline of small businesses.
I have not shopped for ANYTHING in over 5 years from any small business. I do it all online.
I stopped going to my corner drug store even longer ago... like 10 years ago.
They closed 1 year prior to Covid due to mail order (again internet order) prescriptions and reduction of "walk-ins".
I do not even enter a supermarket any longer. I do that online also.
I stopped shopping locally for clothing and hardware about 10 years ago also, and found shopping for hardware and clothing online more comfortable.
There were 29 Ace Hardware Stores in town 10 years ago
As of 2019 (pre-covid), there were only 22.
Since Covid, during those two years the number of local Ace stores dropped to 19.
I liked supporting local business, and when things are operating more smoothly I will again use local restaurants and bars.
I will no longer support the local businesses that I see declining, for I also enjoy shopping and purchasing online more than I do going into brick/mortar structures.
The businesses that have doubled output since Covid began are the drive-through places, like McDonalds.
The McDonalds closest to my house is the workplace of a girl I "date".
She's been there for 4 years, and said that they added a dozen extra employees due to rise in business since Covid began.

You're the one living in udder terror of a virus with a 99.7 survivability rate per your CDC.

Gosh... I sure am sorry if it offends you that I live in fear. I am, as I said before, 70 with more than one terminal illness, half a colon, one lung, one Kidney (I donated other before I became disabled) and other issues that keep me hopping.
I have had a few patients die of Covid related complications, and 3 die of Covid directly.
I have had 2 family members contract Covid and die, as well as two close friends.
You have apparently been more fortunate with the population that you deal with since it seems that you've lost nobody.
Or maybe those in your life are healthier.
Sadly I must see a Doctor weekly and have blood work monthly.
I do envy your position of better health than is my case, but having health as solid as yours was just not in the cards for me.
I have followed every Covid recommendation literally, and to the letter.
The fear that I live in is not about personal mortality.
I fear because I am not finished with my work here with the low-income terminally ill population, and nobody I find here that is capable, is willing
to devote the time, resources, cash when needed or energy that I have been willing to put out.