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Tek Bubble Hash

Hi bro, me too. But found it - it's the W.I.A (Water Ice Agitator) 30 by delta seperations. There is only one vid I could find but you cannot see a lot of its fuction. It seems to work with a counterflow vortex similar to a breweiing whirlpool vessel I've talked about. But $25k?? I showed it to my steel buddy who is actually constructing the German rosin presses and he said he could easily make it for half the price.

It looks as it would only be a washing machine with insulation and internal cooling tubes/filled with thermo oil/glycerin. A filled stiffed mesh bag (240µ?) and the vortex. But couldn't see any equipment for filtration/seperation of the green wonderwater? For that price I would expect an all in one solution perhaps with an integrated centrifuge with different mesh filters?
Don't know what they have to test over months how Frenchy Cannoli supposed to do that with the guys from DS.

Their CUBE is only intended for QWISO/QWUET?
 
herbivore21 said:
I somehow never got a notification on this post! This was during our DDOS problems so maybe there was a spanner in the works. My apologies my friend!

Oh man, I wish you could have been around for the time when that temple ball was made. There were MANY 6 star temple balls at Casa Del Herbivore at that time! What a time to be alive that was :weed:

By the way, even though full melt is the pinnacle of hash obviously, I love non full melt hashes as well like you are describing! I was just enjoying lots of 4 star hash moments ago in my omnivap.

By the way brother, I strongly recommend that you use your dynavap vapes for hash that doesn't fully melt, the flavor and clouds are insane. It reminds me of those earlier experiences of smoking traditional hashes but with nicer flavor, and without the burning harshness that happens when the last of a hash bowl is combusted!

One thing you'll notice when you try your hand at bubble is that the non full melt bubble tends to have a lot more flavor than the traditional hashes of the same level of melt. It'll give you all of the flavor in the flower, including fruity flavors that often didn't make it into the traditional hashes of yore that we used to enjoy :myday:.

This is simply because traditional hashes are processed with a lot more heat and in some cases, much less care during handling/storage/processing. In some regions, the flowers were/still are very harshly dried and contaminated with dust/dirt etc due to outdoor uncovered drying methods. These outdoor contaminants often get into the final hash, especially with traditional sifting methods. This was renowned as the cause for some of the traditional red hashes from certain regions - a color which in these regions owes to the color of the earth upon which the flower is dried in the open air before sifting.

With this being said, I am anti-fresh frozen and live resin, I prefer cured resin. I just prefer to dry and cure carefully to limit terp loss/decomposition to just those harsher monoterps. The reason that the best traditional hashes were so smooth on the throat is in part because the harsh monoterpenes are long gone due to the processing/drying/curing methods.

IME, after experimenting with various levels of drying, curing and processing with varied levels of heat - I find that it is best to dry and cure, but in more controlled ways to prevent too much terp loss. Smoother hits than the bulk of contemporary hashes made without proper drying and curing, but much more flavor can be had than the traditional hashes we remember. Turns out, we can have our cake and eat it too! :dog:

The polymerized residue that you describe when smoking a good hash with some melt is definitely what I am used to from the same btw :) You get the same sort of residue vaping these hashes actually, but it it a little less black.


If you can get your hands on high quality trim, this is going to be worth its weight in golden hash to you. I suggest getting friendly with dispensaries and primary producers (whichever is more practical and legal in your locale) until you can find some trim, which gives you the opportunity to make bubble hash very cheaply :biggrin: All trim must be stored with humidity control, 62% boveda packs will work just fine :smile: Trim will lose flavor and effect rapidly to the point that the hash is much less enjoyable if you let it dry out, which it will do much more quickly than flower.

For flowers, you may want to stick with rosin until you've had a chance to get practice with trim. I do encourage everybody when starting out with bubble to work with trim only.

By the way, I'll have a rosin guide in the rosin section of the Extraction Labs coming soon, which may be useful for you when you try your hand at squishing :biggrin:
Click to expand...


Hey Herbivore21

I was hoping you could go into more detail on why you are anti-fresh frozen? What specific monoterpenes are long gone due to the processing/drying/curing methods. Also, I've noticed how in some cases freeze dried hash "cakes up' (oxides) faster. Why do you suppose this happens? How does extreme cold temperatures affect trichomes? Matt Rize gave a subtle input on this and claims "freeze dryers puts out already caked (crystalized) hash---"producing white hash is the result of over feeding salts resulting in a thick wax membrane, an early pull, or freezer burn. Mature trichomes display a golden hue when collected, with a diamond-like reflection of light. Bleached non-reflective trichomes are the result of immure resin, and/or bleaching from freeze dries" What does he mean by bleaching, how does this chemically speaking encourage the cake like consistency in hash. I know it has to do with more than one factor alone since I have came across some WPFF freeze dried hash that was just as melty as microplane dried and did not change its melty consistency, kept in a dark cool place.



Maybe I'm overthinking this simple question, I just came across this "Freezing-induced cellular dehydration is the most wide- spread cause of damage." Moreover,[FONT=Open Sans, Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif] plasmolyze cells are dehydrated and lose most or all of physiological functions while in the shriveled state. So----would the dehydration of these cells cause the cake like consistency in freeze dried hash? Thoughts? Thank you for your time! [/FONT]


Interesting read, here's the link: www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/3/4/583/pdf



Mod note: Edited to remove duplicate quote.

 
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Lissette said:
What specific monoterpenes are long gone due to the processing/drying/curing methods.
Click to expand...
That's going to depend a lot on the chemotype of the material that you are drying to begin with. However, this study (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/np960004a) provides an overview of overall loss of terpenes in the distilled volatile oil fractions taken from both fresh cannabis, as well as dried cannabis over various periods. Let me explain in a little more detail:

The study considered four samples of cannabis for comparison here:

Sample A: Fresh cannabis distillate from buds
Sample B: Distillate from buds that were dried at room temp for 1 week
Sample C: Distillate from buds dried at room temp for 1 week, then stored in a brown paper bag for 1 month
Sample D: Distillate from buds dried for one week, then stored in brown paper bag for 3 months.

As an overall percentage of volatile oil loss compared to the fresh sample:

Sample B: A loss of 31% of the overall volatile oil fraction was observed in this 1 week dried sample.
Sample C: A loss of 44.8% of the overall volatile oil fraction was observed in this 1 week dried/1 month stored sample
Sample D: A loss of 55.2% of the overall volatile oil fraction was observed in this 1 week dried/3 month stored sample

Now let's take a closer look at what happened to the sesquiterpene and monoterpene measures of each sample:

Sample A: Monoterpene fraction - 92.48% Sesquiterpenes: 6.84% Other compounds: .68%
Sample B: Monoterps - 85.54% Sesquiterps - 12.64% Others - 1.82%
Sample C: Monoterps - 67.60% Sesquiterps - 29.53% Others - 2.87%
Sample D: Monoterps - 62.02% Sesquiterps - 35.63% Others - 2.35%

What we see here is not just changes in the overall yield (obviously, we can conclude from this that live resin is higher yielding than dried/cured resin, which helps us to understand why commercial vendors are more likely to produce this product than cured hash!!!), but also to the kinds of terps present.

When we look at analysis of the individual terps, ketones etc that were measured in the samples, we see a drastic loss of the monoterpene 'beta-myrcene' between samples A-D (A: 67.11% B: 58.72% C: 38.74% D: 32.88%). Half of the myrcene in the sample was observed to be lost between fresh and dried/stored buds across the samples stored. Given that the beta-myrcene in question was over 2/3 of the original volatile oil fraction sampled, we can see how the total volume of monoterps reduced so drastically with drying/storage.

However, this overall reduction in monoterps and corresponding increase in sesquiterps is not absolute: We also see increases in some other monoterpenes (including modest increases in limonene, and a reasonable increase in linalool from Sample A-D in that order), and especially sesquiterpenoids (including increases in cis-Thujanole, beta-elemene, y-circumene and a variety of other sesquiterpenes, these increases were positively correlated with increases in drying/storage time).

One thing that I've found universally in my anecdotal experience, and something that many of my friends who process live resin (like @SamuraiSam) frequently say, is that live resin is very harsh and caustic on the throat to be dabbing on the regular. Especially for those who take frequent, or large dabs. As we see from the study above, this phenomenon could be explained in terms of changes in terpene content from fresh material to dried/cured material. However, to speak more specifically to which exact compounds are responsible is not something that we have enough independent research literature to explain at this point.

I'll come back to speak about the whitening of hash in freeze drying and other circumstances when I get a moment, but I do hope that this is enough to retain your interest in the meantime. My thanks for your wonderful question
@Lissette! I am glad to see you embracing solventless extraction, there can never be enough of us! :peace:
 
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Lissette said:
Also, I've noticed how in some cases freeze dried hash "cakes up' (oxides) faster. Why do you suppose this happens?
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This is a product of various drying methods. As you over-dry a sample of hash, it starts to cake out, and eventually you're left with white cakey crumble-like hash. Bubbleman et al. call this phenomenon 'whiting out', and this has been a known issue since before most people had heard of freeze-drying hash.

In fact, I have some caked out, pale pink-white hash at the moment that was exposed to a bit too much drying in an environment that was too hot (near some hot running electronic equipment and exposed to temps averaging 83f over a week or two period), and too dry (<30% RH). What I'm saying here is that actually, we don't need to get into the physics of freezing and vacuum related pressure changes to explain the phenomenon overall.

The caking up has to do with the physical properties of your given sample of hash, which directly corresponds with how rapidly that hash will dry out and lose the volatile organic compounds described in my last post when exposed to a given drying method. I have noted this in my own work, with or without freeze drying or sub-zero temps and using my own as of yet unpublicized techniques.

At one stage in the development of these techniques, I was cold pressing an undried, fresh collection of bubble out quite flat with manual pressure (not rosin pressing, no heat!) to maximize surface area for increased primary and secondary drying without attempting to break-up or sieve the material (IT WORKS!). This is the fastest way to achieve that dried cakey consistency (also the fastest way to overdry lol!), regardless of the subsequent drying method.

I should note that a lot of the time that I've done this, the hash in question was stored in a freezer for varying periods (between overnight, and months!) before cold pressing. Now that I think about it, a conventional home freezer does seem to speed up the phase transition between darker/mother-liquor-colored vs whited out, overdried hash.

We should expect that a conventional home freezer would speed up the drying process, as the pressurized, sealed and cold environment in a freezer can over time lead to secondary drying, where the moisture trapped inside the sample with no porous escape routes can be drawn out over time, through porous passages created by the formation of ice crystals during the freezing process and other causes relating to the freezer environment.

However, as above, I've certainly had hash that I've not frozen at all that has whited out.

Now let's consider why a freeze dryer might make us more likely to end up with whited out hash:

A freeze dryer carries out a variety of steps that very efficiently removes moisture from the sample, much more efficiently than traditional drying methods. When the freeze drying process is complete, the sample generally has up to 4% of residual water, and can have almost no water present in the most efficient cases of processing!

If the sample was stored in a vacuum sealed/nitrogen flushed/similarly oxygen-free environment, this substance can store indefinitely with almost, if not total preservation. It may not have caked or whited out, and may actually have been dried very well and consistently. However, when the hash is not stored in an oxygen-free environment, then the typical overdrying that leads to 'whiting out' that I mentioned above is going to happen rapidly, because that freeze dried hash is bereft of residual moisture that might otherwise slow this process (but may facilitate other problems if there's too much moisture left - regardless of your methods, dry your hash properly people!).

Another issue we should mention is that freeze-drying can also lead to the sublimation of volatile organic compounds like alcohol and terpene fractions found in cannabis trichomes. This is a very well known problem in a variety of industries, from the culinary to the pharmaceutical and many points in-between. These compounds, alongside others, comprise the mother liquor that gives the otherwise majority composition of white, crystalline THCA found in the trichomes their color (the golden hue that Matt Rize describes).

I believe that the 'bleaching' that Matt Rize describes in freeze dryers is due to this sublimation of the volatile organic compounds inside the trichome that takes place in freeze drying to varying extents depending on methodology.

I will no doubt return to edit this post for clarity and more coherent structure, I hope that this helps in responding to your question :peace:
 
Which micron bag is the best bubble dab gear?
 
What a quiet thread! Anyhoo, guess who has two thumbs, a freeze dryer, and an urge to experiment? This guy (insert 2 Thumbs Up gif here. then this one: :goofs: . And this one :sunbathing:).

A buddy has, (cough) 30 lbs to process, so we're working on ways to do this. First up is drysifting, using a rotating screen system we whipped together in the shop. Bubble is the next method, but might be a few weeks yet...
 
I made bubble has just over a week ago. I will say, it's confusing at first because of the various methods available. I have a happy amount, but have no idea how dry dry is. Am I aiming for more powdery or more gummy ? How long do I cure ? There is only so much Canna butter I can use, so I'm trying my best to not waste any part of the harvest. I'm pleased with what I got, and look forward to improving my methods.
 
@Madri-Gal The first few times I made bubble it was a bit of a mess. Blew shoulder out burping bags, mess everywhere, and made a gooey mess trying to microplane frozen bubble that was melting on my hands. So I took a break. I;'ve been watching Frenchy Canolli vids - he's a superstar Hashishin, teaching at workshops around the planet. He's kind enough to post workshops online. This one is long, but very detailed and helpful. He walks through bag setup, how he extracts, how to clean bags and how to make patties for drying. I didn't get the freeze dryer for this, but it's going to get used for this anyways... Soon...



PS - this looks interesting... There's probably a way to build one at home...
 
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Killick said:
@Madri-Gal The first few times I made bubble it was a bit of a mess. Blew shoulder out burping bags, mess everywhere, and made a gooey mess trying to microplane frozen bubble that was melting on my hands. So I took a break. I;'ve been watching Frenchy Canolli vids - he's a superstar Hashishin, teaching at workshops around the planet. He's kind enough to post workshops online. This one is long, but very detailed and helpful. He walks through bag setup, how he extracts, how to clean bags and how to make patties for drying. I didn't get the freeze dryer for this, but it's going to get used for this anyways... Soon...

Click to expand...

Thank you, @Killick. I look forward to learning a lot from you, and I thank you for taking the time to make a video link. In no time, look forward to calling me Bubbles, The Hash Master. Dang ! Is it too late to "fix" my screen name ? I need a new image...
 
@Madri-Gal you are most welcome. We all start learning from the beginning. The first time I made budder I was positive I was ruining an entire months prescription *and* a bunch of butter at the same time, but it worked well. So I started experimenting, and had both great success and spectacular failure. I've been fortunate enough to be gifted large volumes of trim a couple of times, which opened the door to more experimentation.

The short story is I now consider myself a cannabis coach. I've been working with Canadian Military and RCMP veterans for several years now. Canadian VA covers cannabis as a medical benefit, so we're the largest group of med canna users in Canada. We're getting healthier daily. I don't know much about growing, but I'm pretty good at processing, and can help find appropriate methods to assist individual patients. Having said that not everyone gets better, and people still die. If cannabis can provide symptomatic relief than it's met a target, and any healing that might happen is between patient and plant, but we still celebrate success when we find it.

It's very fulfilling to help people get better.
 
I just finished changing the convoluted hose to straight walled on my little plastic washing machine, now I just have to cut down 2x tubs and drill holes in another...I will watch Frenchie one more time and have a crack tomorrow at my first bubble run. I even have 2x 12v freezers to put buckets of water in to add to the ice cubes.:thumbsup:
I got myself a micro plane to dry the bubble on cardboard, any Youtube links to a decent way to dry the stuff, Frenchy uses a freeze dryer, I do not have one of those.:thumbsup:
 
Keep it in a thin layer, so the water can escape. I tried freezing and micro-planing, but that was a bit messy. Some threads suggest leaving it on some clean paper towel, or even clean cardboard, to help remove water. Or use a freeze dryer, which is kinda pricey but has some great benefits...

@LesPlenty Good on ya - looking forward to hearing how it goes...
 
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